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[Music]

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welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole

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podcast I'm your host Kelly Chase

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today we're circling back to an idea

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that we visited in one of the earliest

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episodes of the podcast the extra

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tempestrial model sometimes also

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referred to as the future human

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hypothesis the extra tempustrial model

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is the idea that the UFO phenomenon

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might represent Advanced humans and

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human descendants who were traveling

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here from another point in time

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now I'll admit to struggling with this

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idea at first time travel has always

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seemed a little too clunky and a little

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too hokey to be taken seriously but as

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so often happens on this trip down the

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rabbit hole the more I learned and the

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more my perspective began to swell and

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shift to accommodate the strange new

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realities I was exploring the more what

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once seemed like kind of a crazy idea

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suddenly started to make a heck of a lot

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of sense

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and I found that many of my objections

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had more to do with the limitations of

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my knowledge than the limitations of the

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extra tempustrial model itself so I want

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to come back around to this idea because

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there is a lot to dig into most of which

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didn't make it into the initial episode

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and there are some new and updated ideas

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that I think are really valuable in

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understanding the complexities of the

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phenomenon and there's no better way to

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take a deep dive into this topic than

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with one of the people who literally

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wrote the book on the Extraterrestrial

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model Dr Michael P Masters Michael

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Masters is a professor of biological

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anthropology at Montana Technological

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University Dr Masters work related to

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the phenomenon explores the potential

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evolutionary trajectories of humankind

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linking anthropological Theory to

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hypotheses about non-human intelligence

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he is the author of several books on the

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topic including identified flying

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objects a multi-disciplinary scientific

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approach to the UFO phenomenon the extra

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tempestrial model and his latest a

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satirical science fiction novel called

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Revelation the future human past

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but before we begin there are just a

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couple of things that I want to say

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about this episode too often when we're

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talking about the UFO phenomenon we find

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that we're talking about what the craft

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are and how they might work while

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studiously ignoring some of the biggest

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and most profound questions which are

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what is the nature of the intelligence

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behind the UFO phenomenon who is

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actually inside the craft and what do

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they want

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and that makes sense in a lot of ways

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with craft the questions are more

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straightforward as are the methodologies

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for answering them for example you can

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verify that a craft is real and

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determine things about its capabilities

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and measurable scientific terms if you

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can capture it on multiple tracking

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systems simultaneously or if you were

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able to get your hands on an actual

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craft you could test those materials in

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a lab and determine what it was made out

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of and maybe even get Clues as to how it

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was made

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and with a topic that has been so

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heavily stigmatized it's not hard to

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understand why people would want to

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stick to the hard science to the things

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that we would at least hypothetically

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have the ability to prove in a lab

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and there are many who argue that if we

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want you follow G to be taken seriously

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then the only way forward is to leave

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behind all the speculation and just

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focus on what we can know for sure

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as the oft mentioned Carl Sagan quote

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goes extraordinary claims require

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extraordinary evidence

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it makes sense then that people would

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want to focus on the best and most

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empirically provable data points in

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order to have the best shot at clearing

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that bar and I get that it's a valid

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perspective

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the problem comes when we decide that

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that is the only kind of data that we're

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going to be willing to take seriously

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this approach ultimately cripples Us in

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terms of getting a sense of the full

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scope of what we're dealing with here

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because virtually all of the biggest

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questions about the UFO phenomenon

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including who these others are and what

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they're doing here and what they want

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aren't questions that can be answered in

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a lab

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as an anthropologist Michael Masters is

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trained in exactly the sort of

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discipline that we need to ask some of

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these bigger questions his tools are

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observational not experimental the data

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used to assess these kinds of questions

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are qualitative not quantitative we're

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not talking about facts and figures or

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elements on the periodic table we're

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talking about experiences and patterns

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we're talking about stories and

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anecdotes we're talking about the

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eyewitness accounts of people who claim

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to have actually come in contact with

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these beings

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and depending on where you are on your

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own trip down the rabbit hole those

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kinds of conversations might make you a

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little bit squeamish or uncomfortable

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and that's totally normal but if you're

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feeling that way I challenge you to

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question where that impulse comes from

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and not to let it hold you back from

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considering new viewpoints and

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perspectives

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because ultimately we need to recognize

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that being willing to entertain the

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reality of UFOs only up to the point

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that anyone actually interacts with the

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intelligence behind them isn't actually

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objective no matter how much the

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denizens of consensus reality try to

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insist that it is

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before we begin I'll also mention that

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throughout this interview Mike and I

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reference the Edgar Mitchell free study

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free stands for foundation for Research

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into extraterrestrial and extraordinary

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experiences and the study that we're

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referring to involved the largest survey

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of experiences that has been done to

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date with over 3 000 participants

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from this data they were able to pull

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valuable insights as to the types of

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experiences that people report the

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impact that it has on their lives and

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yes details about what these beings

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actually look like and what they say to

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reported contactees I'll link to that in

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the episode brief so that you can

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explore that on your own if you're

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interested

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but I just wanted to clarify that when

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you hear me mention say manted beings

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I'm not arguing for the literal

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existence of giant intelligent insects

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I'm agnostic on that as I am for most of

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this stuff

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but the fact remains that a certain

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percentage of people who report contact

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with non-human entities report seeing

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something of that nature and that's

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significant even if we don't know what

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it means and so as we dive into this

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episode I'll leave you with another and

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I'd argue much more helpful quote from

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Carl Sagan

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we wish to find the truth no matter

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where it lies but Define the truth we

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need imagination and skepticism both

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we will not be afraid to speculate but

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we will be careful to distinguish

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speculation from fact

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here is my conversation with Dr Michael

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Masters

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so for anyone listening who might not be

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familiar from a high level what is the

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Extraterrestrial model and what

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advantages does it have over the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis

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well that's a great question thanks for

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having me on by the way it's nice to be

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here to chat with you about such things

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the extra tempestra model is really just

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a time traveling future humans

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explanation for UFO phenomenon which is

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an idea that's been around for decades

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really

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but I thought it needed a name I have

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heard it called Chrono knots and UFO

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knots and a couple others but I thought

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extra tempestra was a good way of sort

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of summing it up with one word where the

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term extraterrestrial just means off

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Earth or outside of Earth and this so

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they very well could be here on Earth

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just in a future time so we don't see

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them at this very moment but they may

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inherit the earth and live here just as

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we do now but in various times

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throughout our future so yeah by

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substituting temp for the Latin root for

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time it just indicates that they're from

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outside our position in time rather than

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being outside of our position in space

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on this planet but as I've said since

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the beginning I don't see this as

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mutually exclusive with the

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Extraterrestrial hypothesis or any

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others in fact I've come to believe

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recently

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that but you know we may be talking

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about the exact same thing as with

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crypto terrestrials Ultra terrestrials

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gin Genies fairies Angels Gods demons

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all of it I think really may just be

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some iteration of humans and when we

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interject time like I read Mac Tony's

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book recently the crypto terrestrials

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can't fight it on my bookshelf of course

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but you know I'm reading it and it's the

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exact same thing I'm arguing and we even

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have a similar writing style which kind

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of freaks me out at first but if you

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want to reject that element of time that

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fourth dimension we're saying the same

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thing you know so I think maybe if we

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step back and look at the Phenomenon

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with that perception of being able to

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move through the fourth dimension of

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time or possibly a higher Dimension that

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allows them to sort of dip in and out of

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whatever time they wish throughout their

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own past then it may help explain a lot

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of these different interpretations that

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are potentially all the same thing

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that's really interesting and it sounds

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like even with the interdimensional

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hypothesis that you know people make

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that distinction between the

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Extraterrestrial model and the

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inter-dimensional stuff but that even

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might be permutations of the same thing

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as well is that how you're beginning to

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think about it oh well the answer to

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mentioned I was always I've always

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considered that the same as this extra

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tempestral model it's just a more

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General category so people interject

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that they say oh they're

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interdimensional that doesn't answer the

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question it doesn't say who they are it

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just means they're coming through

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multiple dimensions of space and or time

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so then you have to ask well what do you

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mean by that you know are you talking

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about still individuals from off our

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planet with a separate evolutionary

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history on a different plan and a

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different solar system who are using

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different dimensions to get here or are

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we talking about future humans using

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extra Dimensions to visit their past or

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something completely outside of that you

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do have to ask though if they originate

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in a different dimension or a space with

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higher Dimensions or multiple dimensions

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00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:39,720
of time would they look like us still

281
00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:41,700
would they be so recognizable as humans

282
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:44,160
would their physics even work in our

283
00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:46,440
four dimensions three space one of time

284
00:10:50,449 --> 00:10:48,600
so I think there are some limitations to

285
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,459
just interjecting that and it still

286
00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:52,079
doesn't answer the question you need to

287
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,660
say well what are they then even if they

288
00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:56,399
are using extra Dimension so yeah I've

289
00:11:00,290 --> 00:10:58,500
always considered that the same thing

290
00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:00,300
this extra Tempest your model just a

291
00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:02,760
more specific version of that that

292
00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:04,740
indicates that their Origins are still

293
00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:06,600
Earthly and within these three

294
00:11:11,090 --> 00:11:08,820
dimensions of space just using extra

295
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,100
dimensions of time or possibly some

296
00:11:14,329 --> 00:11:12,959
fifth dimension of space time that we

297
00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:14,339
don't understand but currently there's

298
00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:16,920
no evidence to suggest there there are

299
00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:19,260
multiple universes or any anything like

300
00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:21,420
that theoretically there are extra

301
00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:24,839
Dimensions beyond our four but they're

302
00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:26,940
still not abroad consensus on that or

303
00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:28,740
whether or not we could ever find them

304
00:11:34,190 --> 00:11:31,260
and study them if they do exist

305
00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:34,200
so what are the biological and social

306
00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:36,600
trends in the evolution of humans that

307
00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:38,040
lead you to believe that the beings

308
00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:40,620
being reported by many contactees might

309
00:11:44,449 --> 00:11:42,300
actually be us from another point in

310
00:11:46,670 --> 00:11:44,459
time I'm glad you added social to that

311
00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:46,680
too because you know we can't separate

312
00:11:51,889 --> 00:11:49,620
the tomb in human evolution we're unique

313
00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:51,899
in that respect and if you look at the

314
00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:53,940
history of humanity we refer to it as

315
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,480
biocultural Evolution biosocial because

316
00:12:01,009 --> 00:11:59,279
the two are inseparable once we

317
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:01,019
developed culture once we started use

318
00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:04,200
stone tools and fire and all kinds of

319
00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:07,320
various iterations of stone and wood and

320
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,260
ivory really it had such a massive

321
00:12:14,569 --> 00:12:12,720
impact on our physiology that we can't

322
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,579
look at human evolution without that

323
00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:16,620
like we can study the biology of other

324
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,019
organisms we don't have to focus on

325
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,120
culture because it wasn't fundamental to

326
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,800
their evolutionary trajectory but with

327
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:25,200
humans it was a good example is when we

328
00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:27,959
first started using fire to cook food at

329
00:12:32,449 --> 00:12:30,420
shrunk our gastrointestinal system that

330
00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:32,459
in conjunction with using tools to

331
00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:35,540
process the food especially fibrous meat

332
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,800
products fire kind of starts the

333
00:12:41,630 --> 00:12:39,360
digestive process or whole

334
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:41,640
gastrointestinal system shrunk it helped

335
00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:43,740
contribute more energy to the brain

336
00:12:48,889 --> 00:12:46,200
Leslie Aiello's expensive tissue

337
00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:48,899
hypothesis so really the two are

338
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:50,760
intricately linked but even before

339
00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:53,519
culture some of the most dominant Trends

340
00:12:58,009 --> 00:12:55,500
the first iterations of culture some

341
00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:58,019
debate about that was between 3 and 3.3

342
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,120
million years ago is when we find the

343
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:02,399
first evidence of stone tools but prior

344
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:04,260
to that we still had three million years

345
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:07,680
of evolving Sans culture prior to

346
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:10,260
culture and the two most dominant Trends

347
00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:12,600
not just in that pre-culture period but

348
00:13:17,210 --> 00:13:14,579
throughout the last six to eight million

349
00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:17,220
years of human evolution have been an

350
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,019
increase in brain size it's roughly

351
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:21,600
three times the size it was in our

352
00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:24,300
earliest dominant ancestors and modern

353
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:26,820
chimpanzees around 400 cubic centimeters

354
00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:29,760
and as the brain grew and moved out

355
00:13:34,370 --> 00:13:32,040
interiorly more forward over our eye

356
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,380
orbits and also expanded media laterally

357
00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:36,959
especially in the parietal lobes for the

358
00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:39,300
top and back part of the skull

359
00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:41,220
in conjunction with that we had a face

360
00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:43,620
that retracted it got smaller and

361
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,380
retracted again partly because of tools

362
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:48,720
probably because of fire and stone tools

363
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:51,360
where we relieved pressure for large

364
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,480
teeth masticatory muscles large chewing

365
00:13:58,129 --> 00:13:56,399
apparatus so the face could get out of

366
00:13:59,569 --> 00:13:58,139
the way of an expanding brain and that's

367
00:14:01,970 --> 00:13:59,579
exactly what happened so we have this

368
00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:01,980
trade-off between our brains and our

369
00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:04,680
faces and so this is kind of the main

370
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:06,600
way I approached it for my first book

371
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,360
identified flying objects where if those

372
00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:12,000
same Trends continue regardless of what

373
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:14,519
sort of continued social pressures or

374
00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:16,620
political or economic or environmental

375
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,620
pressures occur this same

376
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,360
fundamental change in human evolution

377
00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:23,040
that's occurred for six to eight million

378
00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:25,260
years if it continues we're very likely

379
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:27,000
to possess the same cranial facial

380
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:28,800
architectures is quintessential gray

381
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:30,540
alien so that was kind of the starting

382
00:14:34,129 --> 00:14:31,440
point

383
00:14:36,889 --> 00:14:34,139
for that theory I realized after

384
00:14:39,769 --> 00:14:36,899
publishing that book that there's a huge

385
00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:39,779
number of cases where it's people just

386
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:41,579
like us it's modern humans and I

387
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,500
reference the doctor Edgar Mitchell free

388
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:45,600
study relatively often because it's the

389
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:48,959
only large survey based study that gives

390
00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:51,360
us some results that are quite

391
00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:53,420
informative it's a multi-language

392
00:14:57,769 --> 00:14:56,100
Multicultural survey study and obviously

393
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:57,779
there's issues with surveys that we

394
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,180
could get into but but something like

395
00:15:04,189 --> 00:15:02,160
this that arguiled arguably the best we

396
00:15:06,650 --> 00:15:04,199
can do right now until we can set up

397
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:06,660
cameras in every abductee's bedroom and

398
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,000
really study the physiological form of

399
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:11,040
these beings during an abduction

400
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:12,600
but what they found is that the most

401
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,300
commonly reported form is human just

402
00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:18,000
like us an actual anatomically modern

403
00:15:22,430 --> 00:15:20,220
homo sapien sapien and then after that

404
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,440
was a short graze tall Grays and then

405
00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:25,260
hybrid some iteration of those in

406
00:15:29,810 --> 00:15:28,440
combination and as I often point out all

407
00:15:32,329 --> 00:15:29,820
four of those

408
00:15:33,769 --> 00:15:32,339
are by definition hominin they are

409
00:15:37,009 --> 00:15:33,779
within our lineage they're upright

410
00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:37,019
walking bipedal hominin so I think

411
00:15:41,569 --> 00:15:38,940
that's important to note that and also

412
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:41,579
just how many really are us they look

413
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:43,380
like us talking about the social and

414
00:15:47,329 --> 00:15:45,420
cultural things when abduct views are

415
00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:47,339
given tours of The Craft they have

416
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:50,040
kitchens and bathrooms bedrooms and

417
00:15:54,650 --> 00:15:53,100
control rooms and medical examination

418
00:15:57,290 --> 00:15:54,660
rooms all the same things you'd expect

419
00:15:59,629 --> 00:15:57,300
us to have in a craft like that is

420
00:16:01,009 --> 00:15:59,639
modern human so I think yeah I think

421
00:16:02,930 --> 00:16:01,019
there's a lot of things that indicate

422
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:02,940
that they are us and especially the ones

423
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:05,279
that low can act just like us that was a

424
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,620
part of my second book was to walk that

425
00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:09,120
back you know I was just talking about

426
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:10,860
the Grays primarily

427
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:13,019
in the first book but to walk that back

428
00:16:17,689 --> 00:16:15,720
and cover a broad geographic area

429
00:16:20,449 --> 00:16:17,699
there's five continents over 90 plus

430
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,459
years of contact the experiences and

431
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,079
what do people see you know yes there

432
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,480
are archetypal Grays but also people

433
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:27,360
just like us who are seen exercising

434
00:16:30,829 --> 00:16:28,860
outside their ships and collecting

435
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,839
Grasshoppers and really mundane things

436
00:16:35,629 --> 00:16:33,839
like that that is really interesting in

437
00:16:38,269 --> 00:16:35,639
your second book the extra tempestrial

438
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:38,279
model you talk about what we can learn

439
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:40,440
from early interactions between old

440
00:16:44,269 --> 00:16:41,940
world and New World indigenous

441
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:44,279
populations that came into contact with

442
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:46,860
each other and how we might respond to

443
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:48,300
encountering a more technologically

444
00:16:52,009 --> 00:16:50,820
advanced version of ourselves and I was

445
00:16:53,389 --> 00:16:52,019
wondering if you could talk about that a

446
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:53,399
little because even in this situation

447
00:16:58,009 --> 00:16:56,040
where people are seeing a being that

448
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:58,019
they identify as looking just like us

449
00:17:02,569 --> 00:17:00,480
and yet as a result of Technology we

450
00:17:05,689 --> 00:17:02,579
kind of place them in the role of the

451
00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:05,699
other yeah no gods angels that was the

452
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:08,280
focus of this most recent book too that

453
00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:10,380
you know the interpretation of these

454
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,419
beings these humans as I would argue is

455
00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:13,679
going to be different even if it's the

456
00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:15,179
same ones let's say it's the exact same

457
00:17:19,069 --> 00:17:17,160
ones as a little thought experiment

458
00:17:20,510 --> 00:17:19,079
who happened a ship from right now you

459
00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:20,520
know where are the aliens we're the ones

460
00:17:25,610 --> 00:17:22,199
traveling back in time

461
00:17:28,669 --> 00:17:25,620
you go back 10 minutes you're gonna look

462
00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:28,679
like everybody else 20 years

463
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,740
50 years 100 years but once you do start

464
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:33,600
getting into the thousands yeah

465
00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:35,640
especially when you focus on the culture

466
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:37,799
and Technology of those times it's going

467
00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:41,039
to be Godlike that's magical to them and

468
00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:42,660
even ones that could walk around you put

469
00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:44,820
on the clothes of those people you know

470
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:46,740
we haven't evolved this capacity yet at

471
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,120
least most of us haven't some

472
00:17:53,770 --> 00:17:50,720
individuals have but the ability for

473
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:53,780
telepathic communication remote viewing

474
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:56,640
Clairvoyance future knowledge seemingly

475
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,620
a lot of these beings even ones who

476
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:00,480
aren't quite to the gray level have that

477
00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:02,460
capacity and if we did that if we had

478
00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:04,919
that now and we can go back and interact

479
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:06,840
with the minds of these individuals

480
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:08,700
without talking that's a very Angelic

481
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:11,100
god-like thing to do and they need to

482
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:13,260
start technology alone would give us

483
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:15,720
status there's that cliche example of

484
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:18,960
the white Europeans coming across and

485
00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:21,600
taking over the Aztecs the Mayan the

486
00:18:25,549 --> 00:18:23,580
Olmec all these different civilizations

487
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,559
I guess the Olmec became the Aztecs but

488
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:27,360
they were largely able to do that

489
00:18:30,529 --> 00:18:28,799
because of how they were perceived and

490
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:30,539
then this hierarchical structure of

491
00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:32,280
their civilizations where you take out

492
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:34,260
the individual at the top and plant

493
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:36,120
yourself in that lead position and now

494
00:18:40,909 --> 00:18:39,419
you control the population save for some

495
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,919
of those that aren't as accepting of

496
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:42,960
your new position of power over them but

497
00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:44,280
they could do that because of the

498
00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:46,020
technological differences fortunately

499
00:18:51,169 --> 00:18:48,539
these don't seem to be doing that

500
00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:51,179
they're not taking over past groups and

501
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:54,120
when slaving us and making us build

502
00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:56,100
things and toil in the fields but they

503
00:19:01,250 --> 00:18:58,620
could if they wanted regardless we still

504
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,260
see them as Godlike there's been a lot

505
00:19:06,169 --> 00:19:04,080
of even recent UFO Cults UFO religions

506
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:06,179
and yeah you take it back even further

507
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,600
with continuing the r technology example

508
00:19:13,789 --> 00:19:11,520
that I sort of tangentially straight

509
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:13,799
away from there sorry about that we're

510
00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:15,240
going to be perceived differently in

511
00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:17,340
each of these previous iterations of

512
00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:19,740
human existence and you go back Twenty

513
00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:20,820
Thousand Years thirty thousand years

514
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:22,260
forty thousand years now it's

515
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:24,900
unfathomable what we're doing who we are

516
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,580
when we're seeing coming down from the

517
00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:28,799
sky in each of these situations because

518
00:19:33,049 --> 00:19:31,080
the craft fly so you can understand

519
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,059
where the Extraterrestrial hypothesis

520
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:35,520
came from you associate these craft with

521
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:37,620
the Stars they're star people as they're

522
00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:39,120
known in a lot of Native American

523
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:41,940
societies even things like the wheel

524
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:44,820
within the wheel the burning embers and

525
00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:47,340
Ezekiel story there's so many accounts

526
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:49,620
like that and if we step back and look

527
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,260
at those I talked about Baba Moana where

528
00:19:57,710 --> 00:19:54,960
ASA in my second book The Rain goddess

529
00:19:59,450 --> 00:19:57,720
is this traditional Tale in East Africa

530
00:20:01,250 --> 00:19:59,460
and you see those all over the place

531
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:01,260
because of people have been interacting

532
00:20:06,049 --> 00:20:04,320
these god-like beams they're gonna write

533
00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:06,059
that down they're gonna store that in

534
00:20:10,669 --> 00:20:08,340
oral tradition or if they have writing

535
00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:10,679
hieroglyphs written history but even

536
00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:12,840
through song and oral tradition you can

537
00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:14,340
pass things down for thousands and

538
00:20:18,169 --> 00:20:16,140
thousands of years and I think if we

539
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:18,179
look at at these and take them seriously

540
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:20,460
and see these patterns across them I

541
00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:22,260
think it'll reveal that the phenomenon

542
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:25,320
has been with us for eons just like so

543
00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:27,179
many have said before Jacques valet and

544
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,220
countless others and yeah what if it's

545
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,200
the same thing just observed and

546
00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:32,880
interpreted by different societies

547
00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:35,640
because they are in this stage of

548
00:20:39,409 --> 00:20:38,220
evolution that predates their ability to

549
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:39,419
comprehend that we're still there

550
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:41,220
apparently we still haven't quite

551
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,919
cracked the code as a species yet but I

552
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:45,360
think we're close and honestly I think

553
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,860
that has a lot to do with what we're

554
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:48,480
seeing now with the current disclosure

555
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,919
movement

556
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:51,600
it's really interesting and you think

557
00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:54,179
about even now on our planet the kind of

558
00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:57,419
spread that we have technologically like

559
00:21:01,970 --> 00:20:59,400
there's undiscovered tribes in the

560
00:21:03,529 --> 00:21:01,980
rainforest and on islands that are

561
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:03,539
living at kind of a stone age level

562
00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:06,419
while we're taking people to the moon so

563
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,720
yeah I have to wonder to see how those

564
00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:11,280
interactions go you know there seems to

565
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:13,140
be a pretty large spread even in what we

566
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:13,980
know about

567
00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:15,840
yeah and I think that's I had never

568
00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:17,340
thought about that before but that's a

569
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:18,900
great analogy for likely what we're

570
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,480
seeing going back through time where you

571
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:23,280
know we have this snapshot in time now

572
00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:25,620
we like to think of everyone across the

573
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:27,539
world as flying in airplanes and driving

574
00:21:32,350 --> 00:21:30,000
fast cars but that's not the case but we

575
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:32,360
have quite a huge spread of cultural

576
00:21:36,830 --> 00:21:34,500
technological advancement we don't make

577
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,840
distinctions an anthropological circles

578
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:38,640
anymore about first world second world

579
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,140
third world because it implies some sort

580
00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:42,000
of ranking system but there's

581
00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:44,220
undoubtedly a vast amount of cultural

582
00:21:48,529 --> 00:21:46,260
variation that's in fact one of the ways

583
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:48,539
we know that our biology doesn't dictate

584
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:50,820
our culture is that biology changes very

585
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:52,980
slowly subject to the laws of natural

586
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:55,440
selection and culture changes almost

587
00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:57,960
instantly anymore you know somebody does

588
00:22:02,270 --> 00:21:59,820
a new tick tock dance and it's viral

589
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:02,280
across the world and a day or two it's

590
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:03,480
true

591
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:05,580
in the extra-term Pastoral model you

592
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:08,820
write are tides atmosphere low gravity

593
00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:11,159
orbit distance from the Sun chemical

594
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,280
composition abundance of carbon and DNA

595
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,320
has the coding system for all life on

596
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,720
Earth are additional factors that make

597
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:20,880
it highly unlikely extraterrestrial

598
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:24,000
beings would look walk eat drink mate

599
00:22:29,390 --> 00:22:26,580
sense think communicate or be anything

600
00:22:31,370 --> 00:22:29,400
like us and that really struck me and it

601
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,380
made me wonder to what extent we'd even

602
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:33,360
be able to recognize other intelligent

603
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:35,940
forms of life much less communicate with

604
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,980
them and maybe it's not just that the

605
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,840
non-human intelligences that we're in

606
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:42,000
contact with are in some way genetically

607
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:44,340
related to us but maybe for us to even

608
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:46,980
have a real shot at being aware of and

609
00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:48,840
interacting with any non-human

610
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,059
intelligence like we'd almost have to

611
00:22:56,029 --> 00:22:53,039
have that kind of a profound biological

612
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:56,039
link yeah that's a good point it was

613
00:22:59,570 --> 00:22:57,360
kind of the premise of that movie

614
00:23:01,130 --> 00:22:59,580
arrival which I finally watched not too

615
00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:01,140
long ago people been telling me to watch

616
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:03,299
it for like two years and that's the

617
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:05,039
whole cool issue is how do we

618
00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:07,260
communicate are they violent are they

619
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,760
going to kill us even though they could

620
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:10,559
and then they interject at a very strong

621
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:12,480
time travel component to that too where

622
00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:14,700
they see all time at the same time

623
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:17,400
sort of a Slaughterhouse Five situation

624
00:23:22,909 --> 00:23:20,880
and yeah the whole thing was for Amy

625
00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:22,919
Adams to figure that out to crack the

626
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:26,280
code to break through those nuances of

627
00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:27,840
their form of communication and they

628
00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:29,340
were fundamentally different than us

629
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,080
we're not talking about upright walking

630
00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:33,360
by Peter hominids like we are in this

631
00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:35,580
situation and you would expect that

632
00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:38,820
especially because the vast majority of

633
00:23:43,130 --> 00:23:40,860
Earth-like exoplanets outside of our

634
00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:43,140
solar system are massive they're much

635
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,200
much larger than Earth I did a bull

636
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:48,480
analysis of this in 2016 and then just

637
00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:51,840
did it again with new exoplanet data

638
00:23:56,990 --> 00:23:54,120
from a number of sources upwards of

639
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:57,000
almost 6 000 exoplanets and only about

640
00:24:01,549 --> 00:23:59,460
four percent were the same size or

641
00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:01,559
smaller than Earth which indicates that

642
00:24:06,130 --> 00:24:04,140
even that gravity Factor alone not to

643
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:06,140
mention all the other variables you just

644
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:09,600
mentioned in asking this question it's

645
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,460
gonna make for something very different

646
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:13,679
than us and and the fact that bipedalism

647
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:16,860
is so rare here we're the only mammal

648
00:24:21,289 --> 00:24:18,840
that does it full time out of all of the

649
00:24:22,669 --> 00:24:21,299
mammals on this planet indicates that

650
00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:22,679
it's probably not going to happen on

651
00:24:27,950 --> 00:24:24,299
planets that are heavier than ours which

652
00:24:30,409 --> 00:24:27,960
are 96 of them so yeah I think we

653
00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:30,419
definitely need to keep those things in

654
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,700
mind again I I don't want to do a straw

655
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,799
man fallacy thing here and say well it's

656
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:36,360
either this or the Extraterrestrial

657
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,520
hypothesis because there's probably a

658
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:40,320
lot of things that are going on

659
00:24:45,289 --> 00:24:43,679
but if we do look at these two models in

660
00:24:47,890 --> 00:24:45,299
contrast to one another yeah we're not

661
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:47,900
likely to have an upright walking human

662
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:50,640
civilization that looks like us thinks

663
00:24:55,130 --> 00:24:53,340
like us as sex like us communicates like

664
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:55,140
us there's all of these things that go

665
00:25:00,590 --> 00:24:57,780
in to what we've evolved not just

666
00:25:02,090 --> 00:25:00,600
biologically but with regard to our

667
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:02,100
culture and system of communication

668
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,200
could they even learn our language if

669
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:06,720
they existed 2.5 million light years

670
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:08,700
away how would they find us how would

671
00:25:12,529 --> 00:25:10,200
they get here how would they communicate

672
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:12,539
with us these craps can obviously go

673
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:14,460
fast I don't think that's a factor but

674
00:25:18,649 --> 00:25:16,980
how do they even identify our location

675
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:18,659
especially because the speed of light

676
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,700
would take 2.5 million years to even get

677
00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:22,080
there we're talking about

678
00:25:26,930 --> 00:25:24,360
potentially other galaxies at that point

679
00:25:29,810 --> 00:25:26,940
but even within the roughly 100

680
00:25:32,269 --> 00:25:29,820
000 late year span of our own Galaxy

681
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,279
anywhere in that but you're talking

682
00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:34,080
about huge limitations with being able

683
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,880
to find us then yeah as you mentioned

684
00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:38,400
communicate with us once they got here

685
00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:42,840
I have to imagine that our technology is

686
00:25:48,529 --> 00:25:46,200
in some ways really shaped by our shape

687
00:25:50,269 --> 00:25:48,539
and by the fact that we're bipedal and

688
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,279
by the fact that we have to hands-free

689
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:52,080
and that you know oh absolutely yeah

690
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,539
facing eyes so do you think technology

691
00:25:58,010 --> 00:25:56,400
would look fundamentally different if it

692
00:25:59,690 --> 00:25:58,020
was created even if it could do

693
00:26:01,370 --> 00:25:59,700
analogous things by something that

694
00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:01,380
looked a lot different than we did like

695
00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:03,659
had a different body schema yeah you

696
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:05,220
know we have this expression of biology

697
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,340
that form follows function and even

698
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:10,559
beyond having similar things like

699
00:26:14,510 --> 00:26:12,960
bathrooms and kitchens and bedrooms and

700
00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:14,520
operating tables

701
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:16,760
that are so commonly seen in these craft

702
00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:19,919
just the fact that we're even talking

703
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,720
about something that looks like

704
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:24,360
something we would or could use you know

705
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:26,340
what if they had tentacles what if they

706
00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:28,620
had eight limbs and no legs or they

707
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:31,020
floated instead of walked where we

708
00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:32,700
wouldn't expect to see something that we

709
00:26:37,789 --> 00:26:35,880
can just walk in and walk around on go

710
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:37,799
make a grilled cheese sandwich in their

711
00:26:40,370 --> 00:26:39,179
kitchen and take a dump in their

712
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:40,380
bathrooms like we're talking about

713
00:26:44,330 --> 00:26:41,700
something that's going to be very

714
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:44,340
different and that's part of why I've

715
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:46,500
said since the beginning that if they

716
00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:49,820
were described as floating tentacle

717
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,440
Berry and beans I never would have even

718
00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:55,440
given this a second thought but because

719
00:26:59,870 --> 00:26:57,900
they're described so often as human in

720
00:27:02,690 --> 00:26:59,880
almost every instance there's only five

721
00:27:04,269 --> 00:27:02,700
percent and that Dr Edgar Mitchell study

722
00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:04,279
where they were described as something

723
00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:07,380
fundamentally non-human so yeah I think

724
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:09,059
we definitely need to keep that in mind

725
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:11,700
you know there's a show that I forget

726
00:27:14,990 --> 00:27:13,860
Will Robinson I think was the main

727
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:15,000
character

728
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:17,340
than that I don't remember it's kind of

729
00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:19,020
an old I think it was an old boat Lost

730
00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:21,059
in Space is that one yeah I think that

731
00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:22,740
was it yeah which is so it's really good

732
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,080
I think it's made for like kids but it

733
00:27:29,570 --> 00:27:27,600
was really a good series and they had

734
00:27:32,029 --> 00:27:29,580
this thing that was a machine his face

735
00:27:34,850 --> 00:27:32,039
was like this really trippy star system

736
00:27:37,549 --> 00:27:34,860
like one of those oldest screensavers

737
00:27:39,049 --> 00:27:37,559
from the 90s but it was still upright

738
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:39,059
walking still at two limbs it could

739
00:27:42,769 --> 00:27:40,620
morph its body into something different

740
00:27:45,289 --> 00:27:42,779
but it flew the ship with four

741
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:45,299
appendages upper Limbs and lower limbs

742
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:47,940
so we do try to push that sometimes but

743
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:50,880
you watch Star Trek or Star Wars or the

744
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:53,100
Oroville or any of these they try to

745
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,020
make something look so different from us

746
00:28:00,350 --> 00:27:57,600
but it still looks like us you know and

747
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,360
they'll go to this planet which is

748
00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:02,880
allegedly many many late years away and

749
00:28:05,870 --> 00:28:04,380
they get there and it's humans that are

750
00:28:08,090 --> 00:28:05,880
identical to us that speak English with

751
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:08,100
an American accent it's like come on you

752
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:09,900
know try harder at least push the

753
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,419
boundaries of our knowledge of evolution

754
00:28:15,769 --> 00:28:14,640
a little bit but it's hard to do that

755
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:15,779
you know saying same thing with time

756
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:17,580
travel it's hard to stick to the block

757
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:20,100
Universe model of time travel when

758
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:22,260
making a script because it's hard to be

759
00:28:26,450 --> 00:28:23,880
self-consistent even though the universe

760
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,460
seemingly is it's a lot easier to

761
00:28:30,769 --> 00:28:28,320
interject change and interject different

762
00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:30,779
timelines because your storyline is

763
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,520
easier to write like that but I feel

764
00:28:36,769 --> 00:28:34,799
like we should do better with both it

765
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:36,779
should be making non-humans look like

766
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,240
non-humans and we're going to write time

767
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,580
travel make it a little more realistic

768
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:43,740
in the context of the way we perceive

769
00:28:48,289 --> 00:28:46,620
them absolutely I think it's interesting

770
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,299
too going back to what you were saying

771
00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:50,159
about the kinds of beings that people

772
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:52,919
report seeing that even some of the more

773
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:55,919
kind of exotic non-human intelligences

774
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,320
like mantids even though they look very

775
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:00,960
distinctly not human they're still kind

776
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:03,840
of upright walking by petal you know

777
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:06,840
yeah did they have six limbs if they had

778
00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:09,059
six limbs or an insect if they have four

779
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,220
they're a tetrapod very important

780
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:13,200
distinction I don't care how damn big

781
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:15,960
Their Eyes Were if they have the body

782
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:17,820
form the bowel plan as we call it the

783
00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:19,080
tetrapod then they're an Earthly

784
00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,779
tetrapod if they have six limbs they're

785
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:24,299
probably an Earthly insect probably from

786
00:29:31,610 --> 00:29:28,260
an alternate Dimension it could be a

787
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:31,620
very distant post-human civilization

788
00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:33,779
where bugs took over and

789
00:29:37,789 --> 00:29:36,059
you know figured out time trouble I I

790
00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:37,799
don't necessarily believe that but it

791
00:29:42,889 --> 00:29:40,919
has been been mentioned before

792
00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:42,899
yeah but it does at least it does at

793
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,659
least suggest an earth origin

794
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:47,760
yeah clearly not right now because we

795
00:29:52,909 --> 00:29:50,700
don't see giant mantids fortunately we

796
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,919
do generally and they tend to be kind of

797
00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:54,480
they freak people out and that's another

798
00:29:58,669 --> 00:29:57,240
interesting correlation especially that

799
00:30:00,289 --> 00:29:58,679
comes out of this free study because you

800
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,299
know we can always talk about anecdotal

801
00:30:05,389 --> 00:30:02,399
things but this was hit actual well

802
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:05,399
thought out survey study and those are

803
00:30:09,289 --> 00:30:07,919
quite valid in social science and we

804
00:30:10,970 --> 00:30:09,299
shouldn't ignore that fact you know

805
00:30:13,149 --> 00:30:10,980
everybody is like well we need standards

806
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,159
of evidence so we need to do

807
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:15,840
lab-based studies with controlling all

808
00:30:20,570 --> 00:30:17,039
variables that's that's

809
00:30:22,250 --> 00:30:20,580
unrealistic with regard to most things

810
00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:22,260
and more uniquely positioned as

811
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:24,059
anthropologists to call on that

812
00:30:28,669 --> 00:30:26,700
because we can't do that to people it's

813
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,679
highly illegal and we wouldn't in the

814
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:31,380
first place because it's unethical

815
00:30:35,810 --> 00:30:33,720
so as a result of that we have other

816
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,820
ways of gathering data and we can make

817
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:38,159
predictions and we can test those with

818
00:30:43,070 --> 00:30:41,460
the same types of statistical rigor and

819
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:43,080
hypothesis testing that we can with

820
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,940
anything else the only limitation is we

821
00:30:48,289 --> 00:30:46,080
can't say there's cause and effect

822
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:48,299
because there's too many cofactors

823
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:49,980
there's too many other variables but

824
00:30:55,549 --> 00:30:53,279
survey data is a legitimate way of

825
00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:55,559
conducting studies like this and they're

826
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:58,440
up to over 5 000 individuals at this

827
00:31:03,409 --> 00:31:00,720
point but yeah they found that people

828
00:31:06,529 --> 00:31:03,419
who interact with the more human looking

829
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:06,539
entities humans human looking humans out

830
00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:08,460
a more positive experience because you

831
00:31:13,310 --> 00:31:11,340
can sort of see yourself in them and

832
00:31:15,049 --> 00:31:13,320
arguably if they are closer to us in

833
00:31:17,810 --> 00:31:15,059
time in our future they would see more

834
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:17,820
of us and themselves whereas if you're

835
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:20,340
talking about very distant humans from

836
00:31:25,010 --> 00:31:22,740
tens of thousands of years in the future

837
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:25,020
maybe longer than it might take to

838
00:31:29,389 --> 00:31:26,940
develop those big bug eyes where we

839
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,399
confuse them for a praying mantis then

840
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,679
yeah they see us as some primitive

841
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:33,600
Little Ant turd from their very distant

842
00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:35,820
past and why would they care about us

843
00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:37,980
why would they give us hugs and try to

844
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:39,720
make us feel nice about what's happening

845
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:41,880
yeah that makes sense when you see how

846
00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:44,880
lee tree animals and beings that we feel

847
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:46,860
don't have quite the same level of

848
00:31:50,930 --> 00:31:49,260
advancement that we have yeah looking at

849
00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:50,940
Primate Research is a great example

850
00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:53,580
that's just recently that we started to

851
00:31:58,970 --> 00:31:56,580
Outlaw doing scientific research on the

852
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:58,980
hominoids which includes orangutans

853
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:01,559
gorillas chimpanzees bonobo and common

854
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:04,260
chimpanzees yeah it's still only 26

855
00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:07,140
countries who have outlawed that mccax

856
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:08,820
get used for everything these poor

857
00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:10,500
little bastards get all kinds of things

858
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,899
shoved into them and shot up with AIDS

859
00:32:16,909 --> 00:32:15,120
and everything else but yeah we do it

860
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,919
too absolutely where do you draw the

861
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:18,960
line yeah exactly well this question is

862
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,760
a little more off the beaten path but

863
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:21,840
with your background I'm really

864
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:24,059
interested to ask you this so

865
00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:25,799
the communication problem that's

866
00:32:30,529 --> 00:32:28,620
presented by non-human intelligence also

867
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:30,539
makes me wonder if what we're seeing

868
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:33,059
with these humanoid entities might be

869
00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:35,820
some kind of like biomimicry intended to

870
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:37,740
serve as an interface between us and an

871
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:39,779
intelligence that's too unlike us for us

872
00:32:44,029 --> 00:32:42,240
to process it in any other way in

873
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,039
interviews Gary Nolan has posed a

874
00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:46,080
thought experiment of how would you

875
00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:47,820
communicate with an ant colony that's

876
00:32:51,769 --> 00:32:50,520
living in your backyard and so maybe you

877
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:51,779
would need something that looked enough

878
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:53,940
like an ant for an ant to communicate

879
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:56,940
with it but enough not like an ant so

880
00:33:00,350 --> 00:32:58,260
that it got the idea that it was

881
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:00,360
something other what do you make of that

882
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:02,340
idea and do you think it's possible that

883
00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:04,919
maybe more exotic forms of non-human

884
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,419
intelligences that might be coming from

885
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,640
somewhere else could be using some form

886
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:11,039
of biomimicry to communicate with

887
00:33:16,009 --> 00:33:12,840
yeah I listened to that that's from

888
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:16,019
assault talked I Believe by the way they

889
00:33:21,169 --> 00:33:18,600
call him Harry Nolan and Russia which I

890
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:21,179
think is fun directing them on that but

891
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:22,799
they didn't stick

892
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:24,840
yeah so I listened to that in the

893
00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:27,000
airport recently I think not long after

894
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,100
it came out my first thought was why not

895
00:33:33,409 --> 00:33:31,200
make them look exactly like us then if

896
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,419
they can well why make all these

897
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:35,880
different versions and with some that

898
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,399
have very shocking mantis-like

899
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,320
characteristics why not if they're

900
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:42,960
focused on a specific group of people on

901
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:45,840
a specific Planet at a specific time as

902
00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:47,460
extraterrestrials who have the ability

903
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,140
to make something look kind of like us

904
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:51,360
and communicate with us like us why not

905
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:53,460
make them look exactly like us if

906
00:33:57,289 --> 00:33:55,080
they're Advanced creatures that have

907
00:34:00,110 --> 00:33:57,299
that technology I think they would

908
00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:00,120
but the variation unto itself

909
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:03,419
seems to indicate that it is different

910
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:05,820
iterations of humans from different

911
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:07,980
times with that said

912
00:34:12,889 --> 00:34:11,159
I do definitely agree that if you're

913
00:34:14,089 --> 00:34:12,899
gonna send something back to a certain

914
00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:14,099
time

915
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,379
especially early on

916
00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:18,960
there are inherent dangers associated

917
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:21,720
with that it's hard enough to fly things

918
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,720
through space with our normal perception

919
00:34:28,609 --> 00:34:26,399
of the passage of the fourth dimension

920
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,619
but when you're dropping things in and

921
00:34:32,750 --> 00:34:30,960
out a four-dimensional space time

922
00:34:35,389 --> 00:34:32,760
appearing and disappearing there's

923
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:35,399
undoubtedly four or more things you have

924
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:36,960
to account for and I think that does

925
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,639
help explain why they crash I think

926
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:41,040
human fallibility helps explain why they

927
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:42,000
crash

928
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,139
but yeah why not make AI in the form of

929
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,240
yourself which we do now let's go back

930
00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:50,159
to that analogy earlier where we're

931
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,780
talking about us get on these ships and

932
00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:53,280
going back and exploring all these

933
00:34:59,290 --> 00:34:55,320
different groups if you had to go back

934
00:35:02,750 --> 00:34:59,300
and pick up a couple of 200 pound

935
00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:02,760
neanderthals with Spears and fight or

936
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:05,640
flight responses are you going to want

937
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:07,500
to go out there and do that yourself or

938
00:35:11,569 --> 00:35:09,000
are you going to want to maybe employ

939
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:11,579
some artificial intelligence some big

940
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:14,520
strong robots to go do that for you and

941
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:16,260
I think a modern example is the

942
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:19,200
Pascagoula encounter with Calvin Parker

943
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,660
and Hixson where they were taken by

944
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:23,520
robots at first they saw humans in the

945
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:25,920
craft but their initial abduction was

946
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,839
arguably a robot not even one that

947
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:30,000
looked like a human which I think is

948
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,440
interesting I think that implies that

949
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:32,720
they're from a more

950
00:35:38,109 --> 00:35:34,980
approximate period in our future but

951
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:38,119
Whitley strieber thinks he was initially

952
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:41,820
taken by an AI that looks like these

953
00:35:46,490 --> 00:35:43,260
gray so I think they make them in their

954
00:35:49,069 --> 00:35:46,500
own image they don't really try to build

955
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:49,079
them to specific time periods which I

956
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:50,880
think you would see if they cared about

957
00:35:54,530 --> 00:35:51,900
that

958
00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:54,540
more or if they were extraterrestrial

959
00:35:57,890 --> 00:35:56,220
and we're trying to come to a certain

960
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,900
place at a certain time and make

961
00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:58,800
something that could be that

962
00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:00,180
intermediate I don't think they need one

963
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,980
because we're not ants

964
00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:04,079
where people and their people

965
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:05,820
so I don't think that's necessarily an

966
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,740
aspect of the communication thing I do

967
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:09,599
think that it may be an aspect of what

968
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:10,920
they're doing

969
00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:15,599
we're already doing it we're already

970
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,660
making robots to look like us

971
00:36:22,910 --> 00:36:21,119
probably mostly for the sex industry to

972
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,920
be honest there's been a lot of

973
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:24,960
indications of that throughout the

974
00:36:29,810 --> 00:36:27,300
recent past there is what was that at

975
00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:29,820
that movie cause horrible movie I think

976
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:31,619
it might have been called AI out here

977
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:33,660
with that kid from The Sixth Sense and

978
00:36:38,990 --> 00:36:36,420
the sexy British guy forget his name

979
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:39,000
Jude Law I think was in it but yeah it

980
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,859
was you know they were all sex robots

981
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:42,720
and they're all these places people

982
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:43,920
could go and then you'd have to worry

983
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:46,680
about diseases and the ethics so sex

984
00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:49,440
trafficking and things like that so yeah

985
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:51,480
I don't think it's just gonna be sex

986
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:54,000
robots but they're utilitarian in a

987
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,680
number of ways beyond that and I think

988
00:36:59,870 --> 00:36:57,839
once we start traveling back in time

989
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,880
they're going to be even more so humans

990
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:01,920
we are predictable if nothing else right

991
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:04,800
yeah and it usually sucks on food and

992
00:37:09,650 --> 00:37:06,780
sex because we are animals just like

993
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:09,660
every other yes absolutely so we've

994
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:12,420
talked a lot about the morphology of the

995
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:15,420
beings that people encounter but what

996
00:37:20,750 --> 00:37:18,480
Clues do we have of that the craft being

997
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:20,760
reported might not be spacecraft but

998
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,859
actually time machines well I think they

999
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,140
can be both they can go very fast and

1000
00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:27,599
like I've argued for a long time if we

1001
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:29,880
are going to do Interstellar travel we

1002
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,320
would need those craft to be time

1003
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:33,599
machines simply because of the effect of

1004
00:37:37,790 --> 00:37:36,060
time deletion how it compresses both

1005
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,800
time and space for those inside the

1006
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:39,660
crafts when they get back

1007
00:37:44,690 --> 00:37:42,720
the classic example is the twin paradox

1008
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:44,700
where the individual stayed behind is

1009
00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:46,980
much older because time passed faster

1010
00:37:52,130 --> 00:37:49,140
back on their home planet than it did

1011
00:37:53,569 --> 00:37:52,140
for the twin that was in the ship so if

1012
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:53,579
you wanted to return not just your home

1013
00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:55,680
planet but your home time you would need

1014
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:57,720
backward time travel technology to do

1015
00:38:02,569 --> 00:38:00,780
that so I think it's probably going to

1016
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,579
be an aspect of both and I don't think

1017
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:04,800
we'll really attempt to Interstellar

1018
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:07,020
travel until we have that capability but

1019
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:08,400
honestly I've come

1020
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:11,880
to think that these these machines are

1021
00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:15,180
both inherently not just because of that

1022
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:17,339
but because of the way they appear and

1023
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:19,980
disappear the way they seemingly shift

1024
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:22,320
colors the color spectrum when they're

1025
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,900
powering up before guarding off or just

1026
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:27,119
disappearing and thin air that's

1027
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,500
something you would expect of a time

1028
00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:30,900
machine and then and I kind of broke

1029
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:32,220
down the history of how we understand

1030
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:35,280
time and how time travel might work in

1031
00:38:40,010 --> 00:38:38,339
my first book since Einstein's 1915

1032
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,020
publication

1033
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:42,960
on general relativity which laid out 10

1034
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:45,300
field equations that have been

1035
00:38:50,030 --> 00:38:47,400
solved numerous times to demonstrate

1036
00:38:52,130 --> 00:38:50,040
that time travel is possible backward

1037
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:52,140
time travel specifically future time

1038
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:53,460
travel is easy

1039
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:56,640
but then obviously we're talking about

1040
00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:01,680
1915 to 2023 still without any knowledge

1041
00:39:07,609 --> 00:39:05,640
of the Advanced Machinery that were

1042
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:07,619
arguably seen from that future when

1043
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:09,119
we're likely reverse engineering and

1044
00:39:12,109 --> 00:39:10,560
this is the thing that pisses me off the

1045
00:39:14,810 --> 00:39:12,119
most is people will miss this obvious

1046
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:14,820
fact they're talking about how these

1047
00:39:20,750 --> 00:39:18,000
craft are thousands of years Beyond us

1048
00:39:23,089 --> 00:39:20,760
and we're reverse engineering in linear

1049
00:39:25,849 --> 00:39:23,099
time we're going to be flying those

1050
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:25,859
things thousands of years in the future

1051
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:28,320
probably a lot sooner than that but we

1052
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:30,119
would be expected to have the technology

1053
00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:31,680
if we reverse engineer it will

1054
00:39:36,050 --> 00:39:33,180
eventually figure out how it works and

1055
00:39:37,790 --> 00:39:36,060
then use it to travel back in time and I

1056
00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:37,800
feel like it's a very obvious thing that

1057
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:40,200
a lot of people just goes right by them

1058
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:43,260
like yes it's more advanced than us yes

1059
00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:45,240
we have it yes we're figuring out how to

1060
00:39:50,810 --> 00:39:48,660
do it maybe that'll be us at some point

1061
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:50,820
using that same technology and I talk

1062
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:52,380
about this in both my books because I

1063
00:39:56,270 --> 00:39:53,760
think it's an important point but one

1064
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:56,280
that's really commonly overlooked and in

1065
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,500
people's statements about this highly

1066
00:40:02,810 --> 00:40:00,960
advanced technology that's so hard to

1067
00:40:04,250 --> 00:40:02,820
understand and certainly it was for our

1068
00:40:06,109 --> 00:40:04,260
ancestors but we're getting to the point

1069
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:06,119
where we can start to understand it we

1070
00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:07,440
can figure out how it works even though

1071
00:40:11,210 --> 00:40:09,660
all of these secrets are being kept from

1072
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:11,220
us because of the benefits the

1073
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:12,960
military-industrial complex and what

1074
00:40:16,849 --> 00:40:14,579
they can get out of it in the context of

1075
00:40:17,690 --> 00:40:16,859
war and other predictable thing sex food

1076
00:40:19,849 --> 00:40:17,700
War

1077
00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:19,859
which has always been the case anytime

1078
00:40:26,810 --> 00:40:23,700
any civilization any small group had

1079
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:26,820
technology that was more advanced and

1080
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:29,280
better killing other people than they

1081
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:31,140
spread and that technology spread with

1082
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:32,940
them and unfortunately it's probably

1083
00:40:37,069 --> 00:40:34,980
been the case with what's been going on

1084
00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:37,079
with the UFO cover-up over the last 90

1085
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,240
years as well especially because a lot

1086
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:41,760
of it was happening during Wars Cold War

1087
00:40:46,730 --> 00:40:44,520
World War II post-world War II and so on

1088
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:46,740
but yeah I don't know I think there's a

1089
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:49,140
lot of things even beyond that that

1090
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:51,180
indicate they are time machines I list a

1091
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:53,280
number of them in my second book just

1092
00:40:57,470 --> 00:40:55,740
like the fact that the trees were

1093
00:40:59,810 --> 00:40:57,480
allegedly the trees around the Travis

1094
00:41:01,310 --> 00:40:59,820
Walton abduction site grew at a much

1095
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:01,320
faster rate and they could test that

1096
00:41:05,930 --> 00:41:03,960
with the tree rings around them relative

1097
00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:05,940
to trees farther away from that Linda

1098
00:41:11,690 --> 00:41:09,180
Jones and Manchester UK describes the

1099
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:11,700
grass growing instantly around her Jim

1100
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,200
peniston talks about a sphere of

1101
00:41:17,329 --> 00:41:15,599
influence around the craft where time

1102
00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:17,339
seemed to slow and then he had missing

1103
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:19,740
time and missing time itself is I think

1104
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:21,540
a pretty good indication that there is

1105
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:23,579
some sort of shift in the rate at which

1106
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,480
time

1107
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,760
close as we perceive it in and around

1108
00:41:32,109 --> 00:41:29,520
these crafts so yeah we can only know so

1109
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,119
much in this very limited

1110
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:35,520
perspective we have in 2023 we think

1111
00:41:40,609 --> 00:41:36,900
we're so Advanced but when we're talking

1112
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:40,619
about these highly evolved complex

1113
00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:42,300
machines or not

1114
00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:44,040
I know it may be their eventually we'll

1115
00:41:47,950 --> 00:41:45,480
look back on our understanding of time

1116
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,960
now physicists don't even understand it

1117
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:50,160
astrophysicists they can do numbers they

1118
00:41:53,810 --> 00:41:52,440
can crunch things but it's all

1119
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:53,820
because they don't even know what the

1120
00:41:57,950 --> 00:41:56,160
fundamental nature of time is and

1121
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:57,960
arguably States Sean Carroll says that

1122
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,420
all the time space might also be an

1123
00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:02,640
emergent phenomenon then they get all

1124
00:42:06,349 --> 00:42:04,440
like with everybody like we know

1125
00:42:08,210 --> 00:42:06,359
everything and I think it's kind of a

1126
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:08,220
Napoleon complex where they don't and

1127
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:10,140
they know it but they got to double down

1128
00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:12,720
and be like well actually I know we've

1129
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,980
got it all figured out don't you worry

1130
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:15,839
about that you can't do the math so

1131
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:18,000
don't worry about that and it's

1132
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:20,099
infuriating because if we all just said

1133
00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:21,960
look we don't know

1134
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:24,440
but let's try to figure it out together

1135
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,260
instead of just I don't know making all

1136
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:30,000
these little fights that you see in the

1137
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:31,800
UFO community of the paleoanthropology

1138
00:42:37,370 --> 00:42:34,920
community any field where there's a lot

1139
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:37,380
of smart people that don't have it all

1140
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:39,900
figured out it tends to just evolve into

1141
00:42:44,569 --> 00:42:42,420
chaos and name calling and arguing and

1142
00:42:46,130 --> 00:42:44,579
you see that across the board I guess

1143
00:42:48,589 --> 00:42:46,140
I'm a part of it by just saying that too

1144
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:48,599
so I'll call myself up yeah absolutely

1145
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:50,640
it gets ridiculous at times

1146
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:53,280
I struggled with this Theory at first

1147
00:42:57,170 --> 00:42:55,680
but I know that one case that you go

1148
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,180
over in your second book and that was

1149
00:43:00,410 --> 00:42:59,040
really one that brought me around and

1150
00:43:02,930 --> 00:43:00,420
that most people be familiar with is the

1151
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:02,940
Nimitz incident because you have that

1152
00:43:07,609 --> 00:43:05,760
moment where the Tic Tac beat them to

1153
00:43:10,730 --> 00:43:07,619
the cat point which is something that

1154
00:43:12,290 --> 00:43:10,740
was created in real time through a

1155
00:43:14,809 --> 00:43:12,300
computer that like no one should have

1156
00:43:17,809 --> 00:43:14,819
had any kind of access to whatsoever and

1157
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:17,819
yet somehow the Tic Tac wasn't just near

1158
00:43:22,370 --> 00:43:20,400
the cath point it was on it was on it

1159
00:43:24,410 --> 00:43:22,380
yeah yeah I feel like it's almost

1160
00:43:26,030 --> 00:43:24,420
impossible to wrap your mind around that

1161
00:43:27,410 --> 00:43:26,040
and what could be going on there without

1162
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:27,420
there being some sort of an

1163
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:29,940
understanding that they are interacting

1164
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:32,220
with time in a way that's different than

1165
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:35,220
yeah our future knowledge too I mean if

1166
00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:37,020
we're talking about individuals that

1167
00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:38,040
knew

1168
00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:40,440
something about the future and that

1169
00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:42,839
almost seems like one where they're

1170
00:43:47,089 --> 00:43:44,760
trying to communicate something or

1171
00:43:49,309 --> 00:43:47,099
they're trying to say Hey look we know

1172
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,319
where you're going how do we know that

1173
00:43:54,349 --> 00:43:52,079
yeah I should be asking questions that's

1174
00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:54,359
like there's a lot of things that they

1175
00:44:00,290 --> 00:43:57,740
seemingly do to make us ask questions

1176
00:44:02,809 --> 00:44:00,300
some of us there's the vast majority of

1177
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:02,819
the human population that ignores all of

1178
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:05,760
this but yeah if you pay attention and

1179
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:07,380
like I said earlier I wonder if that's

1180
00:44:13,069 --> 00:44:09,599
an aspect of the disclosure thing is

1181
00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:13,079
that we're not just asking questions but

1182
00:44:17,569 --> 00:44:15,540
trying to figure it out and once we get

1183
00:44:20,510 --> 00:44:17,579
close enough I don't see how that

1184
00:44:22,670 --> 00:44:20,520
couldn't be a signal to them that it's

1185
00:44:23,809 --> 00:44:22,680
time to talk to us if we know who they

1186
00:44:26,030 --> 00:44:23,819
are

1187
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:26,040
they don't have to be covert anymore

1188
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,720
they don't have to hide everything that

1189
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,280
they're doing anymore and that to me

1190
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,960
seemed like one like why do that you

1191
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:32,880
know if you're just flying around

1192
00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:35,760
why end up in that exact point that

1193
00:44:40,849 --> 00:44:37,740
nobody knows about and you should know

1194
00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:40,859
about unless you had future knowledge so

1195
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:42,300
yeah that's an interesting one but also

1196
00:44:47,150 --> 00:44:45,359
the g-forces I also talk about that in

1197
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:47,160
that section of the book this was

1198
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:48,780
something that was conveyed to me by

1199
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:50,160
someone

1200
00:44:56,210 --> 00:44:53,220
who allegedly worked in the intelligence

1201
00:45:00,410 --> 00:44:56,220
Community for his entire life he was

1202
00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:00,420
retired I can never know if that's true

1203
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:03,660
I can never fact check those things

1204
00:45:07,490 --> 00:45:05,700
um maybe somebody could I don't know I

1205
00:45:08,690 --> 00:45:07,500
didn't really care to either because I

1206
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:08,700
felt like they were just trying to tell

1207
00:45:12,829 --> 00:45:10,680
me something didn't matter who they were

1208
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:12,839
something that I overlooked in my first

1209
00:45:17,569 --> 00:45:15,359
book that with time travel capabilities

1210
00:45:19,010 --> 00:45:17,579
and with the sphere of influence that

1211
00:45:20,650 --> 00:45:19,020
they're making around this craft where

1212
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,660
they're manipulating the flow of time

1213
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,800
suddenly we're talking about different

1214
00:45:28,730 --> 00:45:24,720
reference frames

1215
00:45:30,589 --> 00:45:28,740
different ways in which time flows in

1216
00:45:33,470 --> 00:45:30,599
that sphere of influence in and around

1217
00:45:35,390 --> 00:45:33,480
the craft versus those outside of it and

1218
00:45:37,370 --> 00:45:35,400
based on a number of different cases I

1219
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:37,380
give examples of both in the extra

1220
00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:39,599
temperature model they're doing both

1221
00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:41,460
they're speeding it up and slowing it

1222
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:43,980
down so if they have that ability

1223
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:46,800
to slow down time in and around than

1224
00:45:54,290 --> 00:45:50,760
what we see is a 10 000 G maneuver maybe

1225
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,300
you know 0.5 or 1G to them it may feel

1226
00:46:00,170 --> 00:45:56,640
just like a plane taking a slow Bank as

1227
00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:00,180
it comes off the Runway so and I do I

1228
00:46:02,990 --> 00:46:01,500
think it helps explain that too and

1229
00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:03,000
that's what this x intelligence

1230
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:05,640
individual told me and whether or not

1231
00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:08,160
they were who they claimed they were

1232
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:10,140
they wrote to me after my first book

1233
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:13,260
came out pointed out a very obvious

1234
00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:14,940
thing that I overlooked a point of

1235
00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:15,900
ignorance

1236
00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:17,700
and I was like oh cool that's

1237
00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:19,260
interesting thanks and they were like no

1238
00:46:23,450 --> 00:46:21,540
I don't think you understood what I was

1239
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:23,460
saying and explained it again and I was

1240
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,940
like oh yeah damn that makes a lot of

1241
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,040
sense and we moved on and I've been

1242
00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:30,720
talking about it since then you know

1243
00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:33,180
it's not something I thought of but once

1244
00:46:36,829 --> 00:46:34,680
they mentioned it and it's been the case

1245
00:46:38,510 --> 00:46:36,839
with all of this research is those and

1246
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:38,520
this is why I argue that we should all

1247
00:46:42,109 --> 00:46:39,780
be talking to each other and not

1248
00:46:44,329 --> 00:46:42,119
fighting because if we listen to each

1249
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:44,339
other we all move farther down the field

1250
00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:46,920
faster than if we just stuck it on our

1251
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,300
high horses and think of everything

1252
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:50,400
figured out but you mentioned that

1253
00:46:54,109 --> 00:46:51,599
there's been a couple other ones like

1254
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,119
the AI thing we talked about earlier I

1255
00:46:58,490 --> 00:46:56,640
overlooked that my first book disease

1256
00:46:59,930 --> 00:46:58,500
transmission was another one I

1257
00:47:02,450 --> 00:46:59,940
overlooked so

1258
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,460
it's important to put things out there

1259
00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:04,560
who doesn't answer everything doesn't

1260
00:47:08,510 --> 00:47:06,660
even come close but the more we have a

1261
00:47:10,849 --> 00:47:08,520
conversation and the more people with

1262
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,859
specific sets of expertise start to

1263
00:47:16,010 --> 00:47:13,920
contribute to that conversation we as a

1264
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,020
whole grow in our Collective knowledge

1265
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:18,000
and move forward faster and that was

1266
00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:19,740
definitely one of those cases and it's

1267
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:22,500
so interesting too how so many of these

1268
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:24,420
things that the craft do seem impossible

1269
00:47:28,730 --> 00:47:27,420
and then people tend to blow them off

1270
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:28,740
and say well like it can't be real

1271
00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:31,020
because that's not possible and yet like

1272
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,720
you just gave that example I feel like

1273
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:35,280
you're talking about someone specific

1274
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,420
thing

1275
00:47:40,190 --> 00:47:38,400
I mean that might be maybe it might be

1276
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:40,200
some tweeting

1277
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:43,619
maybe but I mean but but with one little

1278
00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:45,540
change like that like with one little

1279
00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:47,640
piece of context or one little idea

1280
00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:50,640
suddenly what is impossible makes so

1281
00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:52,140
much sense and it's like well why would

1282
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,460
we run from something that seems

1283
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:55,680
impossible why wouldn't we stop and

1284
00:47:59,329 --> 00:47:57,359
talk it through and try to find that

1285
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:59,339
thing that makes it makes yeah that's

1286
00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:00,660
one of my favorite things about Jeff

1287
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,020
craple at the at race universities he

1288
00:48:09,410 --> 00:48:06,480
addresses The Impossible it's most of

1289
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:09,420
archives of the impossible a number of

1290
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,940
his books are like well what is what the

1291
00:48:16,970 --> 00:48:13,680
hell is The Impossible it's the stupid

1292
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,980
idea that we have we're in posterity we

1293
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:18,480
look back on like oh that was actually

1294
00:48:22,849 --> 00:48:20,520
kind of easy and that was the first

1295
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:22,859
quote jail in heinek In my most recent

1296
00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:26,040
book Revelation was we look back on the

1297
00:48:30,890 --> 00:48:28,500
past it's like we forget that there will

1298
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,900
be a 20th century science in the 30th

1299
00:48:35,150 --> 00:48:32,880
Century science then we look back with

1300
00:48:36,829 --> 00:48:35,160
this arrogance of posterity I don't

1301
00:48:38,329 --> 00:48:36,839
remember the exact words he used but

1302
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:38,339
it's absolutely true we're talking about

1303
00:48:45,170 --> 00:48:42,060
time frames that are centuries where

1304
00:48:47,329 --> 00:48:45,180
this phenomenon likely stretches tens of

1305
00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:47,339
thousands of years into our future so

1306
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,560
yeah this tiny little blip on their

1307
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,079
radar probably looks ridiculous kind of

1308
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:54,319
embarrassing for Humanity I guess

1309
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:56,640
yeah I would not be surprised if that's

1310
00:49:00,650 --> 00:48:59,400
the case with time travel I know that a

1311
00:49:02,930 --> 00:49:00,660
difficulty that a lot of people have

1312
00:49:05,089 --> 00:49:02,940
with it is they have this kind of Back

1313
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:05,099
to the Future sort of Paradigm around it

1314
00:49:08,569 --> 00:49:07,020
where if you go into the past you could

1315
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:08,579
potentially create a paradox where maybe

1316
00:49:13,609 --> 00:49:11,040
you wouldn't be born but you've argued

1317
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:13,619
in your work that the block Universe

1318
00:49:16,609 --> 00:49:15,540
model resolves that Paradox I think

1319
00:49:18,530 --> 00:49:16,619
that's something a lot of people aren't

1320
00:49:20,829 --> 00:49:18,540
familiar with so could you explain what

1321
00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:20,839
the block universe is and how that works

1322
00:49:25,609 --> 00:49:23,940
yeah and you're absolutely right Marty

1323
00:49:29,390 --> 00:49:25,619
McFly ruined

1324
00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:29,400
all of our brains in the 80s and 90s you

1325
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:32,700
know great movies but definitely didn't

1326
00:49:38,450 --> 00:49:35,400
do anything for how we perceive what is

1327
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,460
likely the way in which time works and

1328
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:40,319
so yeah like a lot of people get hung up

1329
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:43,680
on paradoxes and that only exists if

1330
00:49:49,069 --> 00:49:45,900
there is actual change if there can be

1331
00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:49,079
change to the Past however within the

1332
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:51,960
block Universe model there is no ability

1333
00:49:58,490 --> 00:49:54,960
to change it because the past present

1334
00:50:01,370 --> 00:49:58,500
and future all exist already as one

1335
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:01,380
massive four-dimensional entity a block

1336
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:04,680
of all moments in space-time that have

1337
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:07,920
are and will ever exist so if you go

1338
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:10,500
back into the past it's not changing

1339
00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:12,720
anything you go to the past as we

1340
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:14,520
perceive linear time which our brains

1341
00:50:19,309 --> 00:50:17,520
had to develop neuro science has shown

1342
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:19,319
that we perceive time linearly because

1343
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,540
we have to because if the Tigers running

1344
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,280
at us and we're perceiving time

1345
00:50:26,809 --> 00:50:24,960
backwards we run straight into it

1346
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:26,819
instead of away from it and there's

1347
00:50:30,530 --> 00:50:28,500
different speeds at which other animals

1348
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,540
perceive time too what I call bio

1349
00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:33,119
relativity because it's not just this

1350
00:50:37,849 --> 00:50:35,099
same perception of time and the speed at

1351
00:50:39,530 --> 00:50:37,859
which things change that we see Donald

1352
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:39,540
Hoffman's written a lot about this not

1353
00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:41,220
just with the perception of time but

1354
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:43,740
colors textures feels everything so

1355
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:45,240
we've evolved to have a linear

1356
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:47,280
perception of time unfortunately that's

1357
00:50:51,770 --> 00:50:50,400
really limited our ability to see beyond

1358
00:50:53,809 --> 00:50:51,780
that and you're right this is the big

1359
00:50:56,030 --> 00:50:53,819
hangout for people I think I've probably

1360
00:50:57,770 --> 00:50:56,040
explained block time more than anything

1361
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:57,780
else in any conversation I've had

1362
00:51:02,270 --> 00:50:59,220
because it's important to understand

1363
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,280
it's not just my idea either it's the

1364
00:51:06,349 --> 00:51:04,319
most conventionally held understanding

1365
00:51:08,690 --> 00:51:06,359
of how the universe works earlier I

1366
00:51:11,089 --> 00:51:08,700
mentioned that we still don't know what

1367
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:11,099
time is it's not fundamental it's an

1368
00:51:14,089 --> 00:51:12,720
emergent phenomenon it comes from

1369
00:51:15,710 --> 00:51:14,099
something that is fundamental that we

1370
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:15,720
don't yet understand so we could

1371
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:16,980
potentially

1372
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:19,920
alter this knowledge to expand beyond

1373
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:21,720
the block universe but currently this is

1374
00:51:26,809 --> 00:51:23,760
what we have and it does make a lot of

1375
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:26,819
sense and within this it doesn't allow

1376
00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:28,980
for paradoxes in the way that they're

1377
00:51:33,049 --> 00:51:30,540
often perceived because you go back into

1378
00:51:35,329 --> 00:51:33,059
the past you do whatever you're doing

1379
00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:35,339
you're not changing anything you're just

1380
00:51:40,089 --> 00:51:37,980
doing what you already did in that past

1381
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:40,099
period you come back to the future

1382
00:51:44,750 --> 00:51:42,599
everybody's heads aren't made out of

1383
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:44,760
donuts they're the exact same as they

1384
00:51:49,069 --> 00:51:46,140
were because you had already done those

1385
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:49,079
things before that moment in time it's

1386
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,160
already there

1387
00:51:54,589 --> 00:51:52,319
it just took you still going to do it

1388
00:51:57,290 --> 00:51:54,599
and nothing changes it's still all a

1389
00:51:59,930 --> 00:51:57,300
part of this massive landscape of time

1390
00:52:02,270 --> 00:51:59,940
that we can't see because we see this

1391
00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:02,280
sort of linear flow to it but the past

1392
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:04,200
present future are all there they're all

1393
00:52:07,849 --> 00:52:06,300
part of that massive block and we feel

1394
00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:07,859
the present even though it doesn't exist

1395
00:52:12,290 --> 00:52:09,900
this is one of Einstein's big Hang-Ups

1396
00:52:14,329 --> 00:52:12,300
that he there's no way to quantify now

1397
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:14,339
and there's a reason it doesn't exist

1398
00:52:18,109 --> 00:52:16,500
because presentism doesn't exist it

1399
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,119
doesn't explain the universe that we

1400
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,400
live in but the block Universe seemingly

1401
00:52:25,069 --> 00:52:22,680
does and if you look at this interaction

1402
00:52:27,290 --> 00:52:25,079
with different time periods these future

1403
00:52:28,970 --> 00:52:27,300
humans are likely doing they don't get

1404
00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,980
home after these missions and see

1405
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,780
everything as being different they get

1406
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,880
home and it's all the same they just

1407
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:34,920
went and did all the things that were

1408
00:52:38,990 --> 00:52:37,260
already in those parts of space-time so

1409
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,000
it's only once you get into the many

1410
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:41,040
worlds interpretation and different

1411
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:44,099
branching timelines and multiverses that

1412
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:46,079
you do have the opportunity for Paradox

1413
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,520
you then have to start asking those

1414
00:52:52,010 --> 00:52:49,680
questions about well what about this

1415
00:52:53,809 --> 00:52:52,020
timeline that timeline or they jump in

1416
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:53,819
between them can they get back to their

1417
00:52:58,430 --> 00:52:56,339
realm do they want to why don't we see

1418
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:58,440
future humans constantly coming back

1419
00:53:01,010 --> 00:52:59,760
trying to change things because they

1420
00:53:02,329 --> 00:53:01,020
screwed up the timeline by doing

1421
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,339
something they thought would be good and

1422
00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,319
it's bad they expect all these time Wars

1423
00:53:09,230 --> 00:53:06,599
and things that we just don't see so I

1424
00:53:11,329 --> 00:53:09,240
do think the block Universe model is not

1425
00:53:13,549 --> 00:53:11,339
only accurate you know I don't

1426
00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:13,559
argue for this because I do think it

1427
00:53:18,049 --> 00:53:15,420
helps explain the phenomenon it's just

1428
00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:18,059
what we agree on is the fabric of

1429
00:53:22,970 --> 00:53:20,280
reality at this point but again that can

1430
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:22,980
all change yeah

1431
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:25,680
so if our descendants aren't necessarily

1432
00:53:30,190 --> 00:53:27,480
coming back to change things there's not

1433
00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:30,200
like some epic time war going on then

1434
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,579
why are they coming back what are the

1435
00:53:37,309 --> 00:53:34,559
ideas about that that you think are most

1436
00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:37,319
compelling well I always get out in

1437
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:39,240
front of that question by acknowledging

1438
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:40,740
my biases

1439
00:53:45,770 --> 00:53:43,200
because as an anthropologist that's what

1440
00:53:47,690 --> 00:53:45,780
we want to do in our classes all the

1441
00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:47,700
time I say well if only we had a time

1442
00:53:50,210 --> 00:53:48,480
machine

1443
00:53:52,970 --> 00:53:50,220
we could know these are our best

1444
00:53:55,130 --> 00:53:52,980
theories based on the evidence based on

1445
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:55,140
the fossil record based on the toolkit

1446
00:53:59,870 --> 00:53:58,500
of our ancestors but we can't know until

1447
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,880
they tell us

1448
00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:01,680
but based on the behaviors that are

1449
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:05,400
reported there are seemingly a research

1450
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:08,160
component to it these abductions look at

1451
00:54:13,930 --> 00:54:10,920
John Mack look at Kathleen Martin's

1452
00:54:16,370 --> 00:54:13,940
they've both listed like very specific

1453
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,380
descriptions of what contact you

1454
00:54:19,490 --> 00:54:18,240
experience independently and they're

1455
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:19,500
almost identical

1456
00:54:23,930 --> 00:54:21,780
and that indicates to me and should

1457
00:54:25,790 --> 00:54:23,940
indicate to others that there are

1458
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,800
patterns there there are things we can

1459
00:54:30,829 --> 00:54:27,200
learn from those

1460
00:54:34,010 --> 00:54:30,839
and they seemingly are scientific it

1461
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:34,020
seems to be researched based at least in

1462
00:54:37,609 --> 00:54:35,819
these time periods where people are

1463
00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:37,619
being abducted out maybe a whole

1464
00:54:41,630 --> 00:54:39,240
different thing that they're doing even

1465
00:54:43,609 --> 00:54:41,640
200 years ago were creating religions

1466
00:54:45,770 --> 00:54:43,619
two thousand years ago or whatever but

1467
00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:45,780
what it seems like in this time period

1468
00:54:51,290 --> 00:54:47,700
is that it's research based and it's

1469
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,300
also a Gammy collection Endeavor on a

1470
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:54,240
massive scale that they're collecting

1471
00:55:00,170 --> 00:54:56,280
sperm for men and collecting eggs from

1472
00:55:03,170 --> 00:55:00,180
women and that is seemingly Paramount

1473
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:03,180
what that means harder to say but that

1474
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:05,460
is a pattern that we can identify a very

1475
00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:08,160
very recurrent pattern and a lot of

1476
00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:10,260
people ask me well so what are they

1477
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:12,780
doing to us why do they want all of

1478
00:55:17,390 --> 00:55:14,880
these sex cells and I don't think it's

1479
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:17,400
for us I'm of the belief that it's for

1480
00:55:20,569 --> 00:55:18,359
them

1481
00:55:23,410 --> 00:55:20,579
it's something about the future that

1482
00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:23,420
they require past human

1483
00:55:28,370 --> 00:55:26,220
dna4 and it was interesting having

1484
00:55:29,870 --> 00:55:28,380
written a whole section about that my

1485
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:29,880
first book and then learning about Jim

1486
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,920
peniston's encounter and he said

1487
00:55:36,890 --> 00:55:34,079
something almost identical to which he

1488
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:36,900
was told by them really quickly I'm like

1489
00:55:40,730 --> 00:55:38,760
a week before publication

1490
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,740
trying to add that again it's not cherry

1491
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,480
picking it's not selection bias but

1492
00:55:48,109 --> 00:55:44,400
that's an important thing when I

1493
00:55:50,089 --> 00:55:48,119
independently observed this across these

1494
00:55:52,250 --> 00:55:50,099
different content cases and he was

1495
00:55:54,410 --> 00:55:52,260
allegedly told by them

1496
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:54,420
let's put those together maybe those fit

1497
00:55:59,210 --> 00:55:56,400
together for a reason that that happened

1498
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:59,220
a week before I published this book so I

1499
00:56:03,049 --> 00:56:00,960
don't have to sell synchronicities to

1500
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,059
your audience probably I'm sure they

1501
00:56:07,970 --> 00:56:05,700
experienced them on a regular basis but

1502
00:56:10,490 --> 00:56:07,980
yeah I do think it's research based I

1503
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,500
think it's studying us and our society

1504
00:56:14,990 --> 00:56:12,480
and our culture because you can do that

1505
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:15,000
much better with living humans than you

1506
00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:18,000
can with fossils and I think it's also

1507
00:56:23,210 --> 00:56:20,760
them collecting our DNA for whatever

1508
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:23,220
reason I list a number of them in both

1509
00:56:27,049 --> 00:56:25,260
books so it won't go down that rabbit

1510
00:56:29,569 --> 00:56:27,059
hole again yeah it's interesting because

1511
00:56:31,730 --> 00:56:29,579
even in our modern day we're seeing a

1512
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:31,740
rise in fertility issues we're seeing

1513
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:34,079
lower sperm counts in men so it could be

1514
00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:36,240
if that Trend continues suddenly

1515
00:56:40,790 --> 00:56:38,280
furbishing that material

1516
00:56:43,130 --> 00:56:40,800
doesn't seem so crazy

1517
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,140
yeah and that's all I try to do in these

1518
00:56:47,450 --> 00:56:44,880
books like you can't predict the future

1519
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,460
we can maybe observe things from the

1520
00:56:51,890 --> 00:56:49,680
future and that's why it pisses me off

1521
00:56:54,829 --> 00:56:51,900
when people are like well this is

1522
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:54,839
speculation it's not because we're

1523
00:56:58,490 --> 00:56:56,640
observing things again it's this

1524
00:57:00,250 --> 00:56:58,500
disconnect I see it so much teaching in

1525
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:00,260
engineering school one of the top

1526
00:57:04,609 --> 00:57:02,160
engineering schools in the Pacific

1527
00:57:08,270 --> 00:57:04,619
Northwest where everybody is so locked

1528
00:57:11,210 --> 00:57:08,280
in to quantitative research methods and

1529
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:11,220
a controlled lab or all factors are

1530
00:57:17,809 --> 00:57:14,640
controlled for that's one part of

1531
00:57:19,730 --> 00:57:17,819
scientific research but there's also a

1532
00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:19,740
huge another part that you're ignoring

1533
00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:22,800
and sort of trying to belittle in

1534
00:57:26,930 --> 00:57:25,380
looking at this relationship or the way

1535
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,940
that science is conducted so it kind of

1536
00:57:30,829 --> 00:57:28,319
pisses me off because we're talking

1537
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:30,839
about observational research here and

1538
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:32,460
observing these things these patterns

1539
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:35,760
across things and if they are from the

1540
00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:37,440
future we should be able to glean that

1541
00:57:42,170 --> 00:57:39,660
and it would indicate some things about

1542
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:42,180
our future by taking them seriously and

1543
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:43,440
studying them and looking for these

1544
00:57:48,290 --> 00:57:45,960
patterns across them knowing that one

1545
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:48,300
thing I really tried to avoid was

1546
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:50,220
predicting what's going to happen

1547
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:52,260
between now and then I hear this all the

1548
00:57:54,230 --> 00:57:53,040
time well we're going to live

1549
00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:54,240
underground or we'll live in space

1550
00:57:57,950 --> 00:57:55,740
there's a ton of YouTube videos where

1551
00:57:59,930 --> 00:57:57,960
they sort of take these ideas and go

1552
00:58:02,089 --> 00:57:59,940
there because I don't and I don't for a

1553
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:02,099
reason because we can't know we can't

1554
00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:03,599
know what happens between now and then

1555
00:58:08,930 --> 00:58:06,780
to create this craniofacial form so as

1556
00:58:11,329 --> 00:58:08,940
you mentioned it's important to look at

1557
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,339
Trends long-term trends that we can

1558
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,680
identify in the present and throughout

1559
00:58:18,530 --> 00:58:16,079
the recent and very distant past and if

1560
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:18,540
those continue we're likely to see this

1561
00:58:23,809 --> 00:58:21,300
that or the other so yeah we should

1562
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:23,819
absolutely focus on those fertility and

1563
00:58:27,710 --> 00:58:25,740
vacinity Trends in the context of this

1564
00:58:30,410 --> 00:58:27,720
question but at any point anything could

1565
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,420
change we can't say for sure the only

1566
00:58:35,150 --> 00:58:32,880
one I would really hang my hat on is the

1567
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:35,160
cranial facial change the runaway brain

1568
00:58:40,010 --> 00:58:37,619
that one perseveres throughout

1569
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:40,020
potentially eight million years of human

1570
00:58:42,650 --> 00:58:41,700
evolution regardless of what we're doing

1571
00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:42,660
and where

1572
00:58:47,809 --> 00:58:45,599
and yeah I don't see that one changing

1573
00:58:49,130 --> 00:58:47,819
simply because we became aware of it I

1574
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:49,140
think there's probably something deeper

1575
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,760
going on there but yeah Trends are

1576
00:58:54,190 --> 00:58:52,559
important patterns are important you

1577
00:58:56,809 --> 00:58:54,200
should pay attention to them and stop

1578
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:56,819
elevating lab-based quantitative

1579
00:59:00,829 --> 00:58:58,799
research over all others because it's a

1580
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,839
very narrow view of science

1581
00:59:05,089 --> 00:59:02,640
yeah absolutely

1582
00:59:07,069 --> 00:59:05,099
so to switch gears a little bit you also

1583
00:59:09,530 --> 00:59:07,079
have a new book out called Revelation

1584
00:59:11,870 --> 00:59:09,540
the future human past which is a

1585
00:59:13,490 --> 00:59:11,880
satirical science fiction novel the book

1586
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:13,500
is really interesting with lots of big

1587
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:15,839
ideas and food for thought and it's also

1588
00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:18,720
deeply irreverent and really funny I was

1589
00:59:22,309 --> 00:59:20,099
reading it on an airplane this weekend

1590
00:59:24,109 --> 00:59:22,319
and I think I completely annoyed the

1591
00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:24,119
person sitting next to this or there's

1592
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:26,280
some LOL moments right because I thought

1593
00:59:29,630 --> 00:59:27,599
you were going to say erotic which

1594
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:29,640
should also kind of is it is a little

1595
00:59:32,089 --> 00:59:31,140
erotic I'll give you that I'll give you

1596
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:32,099
that

1597
00:59:38,030 --> 00:59:35,640
um but so our contact experiences though

1598
00:59:39,890 --> 00:59:38,040
exactly can you talk a little bit more

1599
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,900
about the book and just what inspired

1600
00:59:43,250 --> 00:59:41,760
you to write it yeah I'd love to it's

1601
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:43,260
actually the first time I've gotten a

1602
00:59:47,450 --> 00:59:45,000
chance to talk about it so it was

1603
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:47,460
inspired I did a talk at the eslin

1604
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:51,440
institute in Big Sur California in July

1605
00:59:57,049 --> 00:59:54,240
and one of the co-founders Michael

1606
00:59:58,609 --> 00:59:57,059
Murphy came up to me after my talk and

1607
01:00:01,250 --> 00:59:58,619
he's like man I've had so many UFO

1608
01:00:03,950 --> 01:00:01,260
people through here and I call

1609
01:00:05,809 --> 01:00:03,960
on all of it I've given up on UFOs but

1610
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,819
you know listening you talk about this

1611
01:00:09,890 --> 01:00:07,920
future human idea just it makes a lot of

1612
01:00:13,089 --> 01:00:09,900
sense it checks a lot of boxes

1613
01:00:16,490 --> 01:00:13,099
but I'm curious hey have there been any

1614
01:00:19,549 --> 01:00:16,500
studies of sex and music specifically

1615
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:19,559
like what can we learn about the

1616
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:21,599
potential future human or aliens if

1617
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:23,000
they're extraterrestrial or whatever

1618
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:26,160
about sex and music I was like there's

1619
01:00:30,589 --> 01:00:27,839
been some cases with some pretty hot

1620
01:00:32,690 --> 01:00:30,599
stuff going down but as far as a study

1621
01:00:33,710 --> 01:00:32,700
of that I don't know I was like I'll get

1622
01:00:36,589 --> 01:00:33,720
back to you

1623
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,599
so I went through just I don't even know

1624
01:00:42,230 --> 01:00:38,880
how many cases across all these

1625
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:42,240
different databases and you can find an

1626
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,460
anecdotal accounts of like yeah and then

1627
01:00:48,109 --> 01:00:46,079
this happened and obviously the sperm

1628
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,119
extractions as ubiquitous but that's not

1629
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:51,119
sex that's not that interaction on some

1630
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:52,799
spiritual level

1631
01:00:56,690 --> 01:00:55,200
and yeah I kind of got frustrated I

1632
01:00:58,490 --> 01:00:56,700
couldn't find anything

1633
01:01:00,770 --> 01:00:58,500
so I thought it'd be fun to write a book

1634
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:00,780
where that was sort of a corner piece of

1635
01:01:07,130 --> 01:01:03,359
it and how we

1636
01:01:11,329 --> 01:01:07,140
see sex now and how they

1637
01:01:13,730 --> 01:01:11,339
potentially see it as a really cognitive

1638
01:01:16,490 --> 01:01:13,740
spiritual interaction which we can feel

1639
01:01:18,589 --> 01:01:16,500
too but also what that might mean for

1640
01:01:21,710 --> 01:01:18,599
research if they're coming back to study

1641
01:01:23,930 --> 01:01:21,720
that from the future so I sort of split

1642
01:01:26,329 --> 01:01:23,940
the script a little bit instead of us

1643
01:01:28,370 --> 01:01:26,339
studying that about them I was like what

1644
01:01:30,829 --> 01:01:28,380
if they were studying that about us

1645
01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:30,839
and then yeah like just religion's

1646
01:01:34,010 --> 01:01:32,760
really interesting part of it that keeps

1647
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:34,020
getting mentioned like one of the

1648
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,520
hardest things about disclosure is going

1649
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:36,960
to be for religious people

1650
01:01:41,329 --> 01:01:38,640
I was like well I'll write a book to

1651
01:01:43,309 --> 01:01:41,339
help religious people so they can you

1652
01:01:45,710 --> 01:01:43,319
know kind of get ahead of that and get a

1653
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,720
foot in the door so when things drop

1654
01:01:50,089 --> 01:01:48,240
they're like oh okay it was future

1655
01:01:52,549 --> 01:01:50,099
humans

1656
01:01:54,890 --> 01:01:52,559
uh I'm being a little snarky and saying

1657
01:01:59,210 --> 01:01:54,900
that but so no it was just this kind of

1658
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:59,220
combination of his questions and also

1659
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:01,200
satire is just fun I think a lot of

1660
01:02:04,670 --> 01:02:02,880
people read this and think oh Masters

1661
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:04,680
was some kind of bleeding heart liberal

1662
01:02:09,170 --> 01:02:06,540
or something but I'm actually pretty

1663
01:02:10,910 --> 01:02:09,180
middle of the road when it comes to

1664
01:02:13,309 --> 01:02:10,920
politics I'm certainly a social

1665
01:02:16,190 --> 01:02:13,319
Progressive and I think we all should be

1666
01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:16,200
and I think that is the future of

1667
01:02:19,609 --> 01:02:17,940
humanity I think we're moving in that

1668
01:02:22,190 --> 01:02:19,619
direction and have been for a long time

1669
01:02:24,109 --> 01:02:22,200
to increased empathy and acknowledgment

1670
01:02:26,030 --> 01:02:24,119
of the other in whichever way of

1671
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:26,040
conceptualized that whether it be gender

1672
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,920
or race or ethnicity or whatever

1673
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,200
but with satire you can kind of go

1674
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:34,559
farther and you can call on a

1675
01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:35,940
lot of things that are just clearly

1676
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:38,819
hypocritical and so I think the book was

1677
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:40,799
a combination of all of those where it's

1678
01:02:45,049 --> 01:02:43,200
pushing Humanity forward where we're

1679
01:02:47,930 --> 01:02:45,059
seemingly going based on past Trends

1680
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:47,940
again with regard to empathy and this

1681
01:02:51,650 --> 01:02:48,960
way of

1682
01:02:53,450 --> 01:02:51,660
being more accepting which clearly we

1683
01:02:56,450 --> 01:02:53,460
have been Jim Crow laws were 60 years

1684
01:02:59,150 --> 01:02:56,460
ago slavery was just like a hundred and

1685
01:03:01,250 --> 01:02:59,160
some so it wasn't that long ago that we

1686
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,260
were complete to each other and

1687
01:03:04,910 --> 01:03:02,640
I think we're moving in Direction we'll

1688
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:04,920
where we'll be less and less to

1689
01:03:08,690 --> 01:03:06,720
each other and we'll recognize a lot of

1690
01:03:11,450 --> 01:03:08,700
that was the product of religion

1691
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:11,460
you wrote the book in dialogue I'm just

1692
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:12,960
curious about that choice and what led

1693
01:03:21,829 --> 01:03:19,069
well I don't really feel like it was a

1694
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,839
decision I just started writing and then

1695
01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:24,059
I realized about halfway through that

1696
01:03:28,130 --> 01:03:25,859
there was no narration and that

1697
01:03:31,730 --> 01:03:28,140
narration has always kind of bugged me

1698
01:03:34,130 --> 01:03:31,740
because I I would like to imagine things

1699
01:03:35,930 --> 01:03:34,140
myself I don't want to be told who this

1700
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:35,940
individual is or what this scene looks

1701
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:38,160
like I want to imagine it you know so

1702
01:03:42,530 --> 01:03:40,079
that things are described I'm not

1703
01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:42,540
describing in detail every small part of

1704
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:44,280
every scene at all but you get a sense

1705
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,920
of where it's taking place and when and

1706
01:03:52,010 --> 01:03:48,480
then you can create your own imagery

1707
01:03:54,109 --> 01:03:52,020
around that I got lucky because I didn't

1708
01:03:54,890 --> 01:03:54,119
realize that books weren't written like

1709
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:54,900
that

1710
01:04:01,730 --> 01:03:58,799
but there is this show called

1711
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,740
Daisy Jones and the six or something

1712
01:04:06,410 --> 01:04:03,839
like well it's Elvis Presley's

1713
01:04:08,210 --> 01:04:06,420
granddaughter and I saw her on Stephen

1714
01:04:10,430 --> 01:04:08,220
Colbert's show

1715
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,440
and she was talking about precognition

1716
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:12,720
and how she's had it her whole life and

1717
01:04:17,690 --> 01:04:15,359
I was she's an advocate for precognition

1718
01:04:19,730 --> 01:04:17,700
I've had it my whole life too and so I

1719
01:04:22,250 --> 01:04:19,740
was really interested in this and then

1720
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:22,260
watched this clip they showed from this

1721
01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,599
Daisy Jones and the sixth show or I'm

1722
01:04:28,609 --> 01:04:26,640
probably bastardizing the name of it and

1723
01:04:29,510 --> 01:04:28,619
it was about precognition in the show

1724
01:04:32,210 --> 01:04:29,520
too

1725
01:04:35,150 --> 01:04:32,220
so that was a nice little thing to see

1726
01:04:38,270 --> 01:04:35,160
but then we're getting ready for this

1727
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:38,280
trip to go to Europe and my wife picked

1728
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,079
up a copy of the book that I guess this

1729
01:04:46,849 --> 01:04:42,720
show is based on as they often times are

1730
01:04:48,890 --> 01:04:46,859
and we're in Europe and I got a little

1731
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,900
break in Paris for the first week then

1732
01:04:54,170 --> 01:04:50,480
we headed south through the door down

1733
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:54,180
and onto the Mediterranean and my editor

1734
01:04:59,390 --> 01:04:56,160
sent the manuscript back like dude

1735
01:05:01,609 --> 01:04:59,400
nobody's gonna have any idea who is

1736
01:05:03,049 --> 01:05:01,619
talking at any point in this book you

1737
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:03,059
know one of my Beta readers it kind of

1738
01:05:06,890 --> 01:05:05,040
indicated that too and I was like no I

1739
01:05:08,690 --> 01:05:06,900
know I just don't know what to do turns

1740
01:05:10,730 --> 01:05:08,700
out that entire book

1741
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:10,740
is written as dialogue

1742
01:05:14,329 --> 01:05:13,200
in the exact same way and my wife you

1743
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:14,339
know I'm laying in bed I'm like my

1744
01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:15,720
editor just said this I don't know how

1745
01:05:19,010 --> 01:05:17,640
to finish this book now and she's like

1746
01:05:20,030 --> 01:05:19,020
actually that one we brought that we

1747
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:20,040
were carrying around that nobody ever

1748
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:22,260
read the entire time we're in Europe was

1749
01:05:25,730 --> 01:05:23,760
written that exact same way and opened

1750
01:05:27,289 --> 01:05:25,740
it up I said holy oh yeah that's

1751
01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:27,299
perfect I just put their names in front

1752
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:29,160
of it like they did in this book so

1753
01:05:33,289 --> 01:05:31,020
there is precedent for it I guess I

1754
01:05:35,569 --> 01:05:33,299
didn't learn that until after the fact

1755
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:35,579
but yeah it's being turned into an

1756
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,400
audiobook right now by a couple of voice

1757
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,799
actors and they're excited about that

1758
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:42,240
you know because they just get to act

1759
01:05:45,530 --> 01:05:43,440
the whole thing

1760
01:05:48,170 --> 01:05:45,540
has just been those people in those

1761
01:05:50,089 --> 01:05:48,180
moments and saying those words and

1762
01:05:51,650 --> 01:05:50,099
putting their own twist on it but I

1763
01:05:53,569 --> 01:05:51,660
don't know it was intentional it just

1764
01:05:54,829 --> 01:05:53,579
came out that way well I really liked it

1765
01:05:57,170 --> 01:05:54,839
I thought it was really effective

1766
01:05:59,390 --> 01:05:57,180
without giving the plot away but the

1767
01:06:02,750 --> 01:05:59,400
story starts in such a very grounded

1768
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:02,760
sort of place and then slowly kind of

1769
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:06,240
slips into this more surreal reality and

1770
01:06:08,990 --> 01:06:07,680
I thought that because you weren't

1771
01:06:11,089 --> 01:06:09,000
getting all these like intricate

1772
01:06:13,069 --> 01:06:11,099
descriptions of everything it made it a

1773
01:06:14,329 --> 01:06:13,079
little bit more dream like and a little

1774
01:06:16,010 --> 01:06:14,339
bit more interesting I just thought it

1775
01:06:18,109 --> 01:06:16,020
was cool I think it was the right choice

1776
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:18,119
the rest book it's great I'm glad to

1777
01:06:21,849 --> 01:06:20,640
hear you say that because I didn't do it

1778
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:21,859
on purpose

1779
01:06:25,970 --> 01:06:24,000
and you never know something's gonna

1780
01:06:27,529 --> 01:06:25,980
turn out when you kind of buck a trend

1781
01:06:29,630 --> 01:06:27,539
like that and just right like I was

1782
01:06:31,010 --> 01:06:29,640
aware that most books have narration but

1783
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:31,020
yeah I just I felt like it worked for

1784
01:06:35,630 --> 01:06:32,700
this too and there's enough character

1785
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:35,640
switches and enough it I didn't go too

1786
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:37,920
crazy with characters because you do

1787
01:06:41,329 --> 01:06:39,599
have to follow along with who's saying

1788
01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:41,339
what but that made the characters maybe

1789
01:06:46,670 --> 01:06:44,700
a little richer some more relatable some

1790
01:06:48,770 --> 01:06:46,680
that you can hate more and then obvious

1791
01:06:50,990 --> 01:06:48,780
with any Arc of a character those things

1792
01:06:52,370 --> 01:06:51,000
change but yeah it's hard because

1793
01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:52,380
there's so many things I want to say

1794
01:06:56,029 --> 01:06:54,420
like you said you can't because you

1795
01:06:58,309 --> 01:06:56,039
don't want to give away the storyline

1796
01:07:00,829 --> 01:06:58,319
and some of the twists and turns but I

1797
01:07:03,529 --> 01:07:00,839
do think that people who follow the UFO

1798
01:07:05,930 --> 01:07:03,539
phenomenon will enjoy a lot of the

1799
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:05,940
Easter eggs and some of the not just

1800
01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:08,160
references but themes like the whole

1801
01:07:13,309 --> 01:07:11,640
cataclysm thing there was another just a

1802
01:07:16,010 --> 01:07:13,319
backtrack that was another

1803
01:07:17,809 --> 01:07:16,020
kind of main reason for writing it is

1804
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:17,819
that whole idea about what if there are

1805
01:07:22,490 --> 01:07:19,680
two different groups of future humans

1806
01:07:23,930 --> 01:07:22,500
like Frank Melbourne and Roscoe art have

1807
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:23,940
been talking about for a long time and

1808
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:25,680
I've been asked about that too I've been

1809
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:27,119
in contact with some of these people as

1810
01:07:31,130 --> 01:07:29,280
well what if that is the case what does

1811
01:07:33,470 --> 01:07:31,140
that look like in the context of our

1812
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,480
future what might that mean for Humanity

1813
01:07:37,250 --> 01:07:34,799
and I think that is an important

1814
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:37,260
question and in writing a satirical

1815
01:07:41,930 --> 01:07:40,260
science fiction book you're putting

1816
01:07:44,270 --> 01:07:41,940
things out there that

1817
01:07:45,950 --> 01:07:44,280
might make sense that might be complete

1818
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:45,960
nonsense but you have the freedom to do

1819
01:07:49,849 --> 01:07:47,760
that and that was a really fun part

1820
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:49,859
about writing this well it's really

1821
01:07:53,690 --> 01:07:51,660
awesome I can't recommend it enough and

1822
01:07:55,309 --> 01:07:53,700
it's a super fun read and I hope

1823
01:07:57,049 --> 01:07:55,319
Hollywood comes knocking for you because

1824
01:07:58,730 --> 01:07:57,059
it felt to me I'm like this maybe

1825
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:58,740
because it was in that dialogue form but

1826
01:08:02,750 --> 01:08:00,000
I'm like oh my gosh this would be it

1827
01:08:04,250 --> 01:08:02,760
creepy it would be very adeptable I know

1828
01:08:06,170 --> 01:08:04,260
you wouldn't have to do it the thing

1829
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,180
would be just cutting it down you'd have

1830
01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:08,160
to cut it down to where it could be a

1831
01:08:12,289 --> 01:08:10,500
script but I think that would be a super

1832
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:12,299
easy process and I'd love to see it

1833
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:13,680
become a Buddhism they have already got

1834
01:08:17,209 --> 01:08:15,119
actors picked out

1835
01:08:19,550 --> 01:08:17,219
well we've we're speaking it into

1836
01:08:23,329 --> 01:08:19,560
existence right now so let's do it we're

1837
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,339
manifesting it absolutely so just to get

1838
01:08:27,050 --> 01:08:24,719
things wrapped up what are you working

1839
01:08:29,890 --> 01:08:27,060
on what should people expect to see from

1840
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:29,900
you next I've always come out with

1841
01:08:34,970 --> 01:08:32,880
paperbacks ebooks and audiobooks at the

1842
01:08:37,970 --> 01:08:34,980
same time and it just wasn't possible

1843
01:08:40,370 --> 01:08:37,980
with this one because it does require

1844
01:08:43,249 --> 01:08:40,380
acting and voice characters different

1845
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:43,259
characters for different voices so the

1846
01:08:47,030 --> 01:08:44,640
rest of my summer is probably going to

1847
01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:47,040
be spent doing that which I'm kind of

1848
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,600
excited about because I've developed

1849
01:08:53,209 --> 01:08:50,880
some audio production skills being in

1850
01:08:56,150 --> 01:08:53,219
various bands over the last

1851
01:08:58,370 --> 01:08:56,160
20 years or so in recording music

1852
01:08:59,570 --> 01:08:58,380
and recording my first two audio books

1853
01:09:01,729 --> 01:08:59,580
too it's just obviously different

1854
01:09:03,229 --> 01:09:01,739
because there's more people involved now

1855
01:09:05,570 --> 01:09:03,239
for the people I'm working with are

1856
01:09:07,789 --> 01:09:05,580
really excited about it too and it's fun

1857
01:09:10,970 --> 01:09:07,799
like you said it's kind of fun and funny

1858
01:09:13,490 --> 01:09:10,980
at times so the ones involved have read

1859
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,500
it or are reading it right now and are

1860
01:09:19,189 --> 01:09:15,600
excited for that and then there's a

1861
01:09:22,870 --> 01:09:19,199
mufon conference in late August I'll be

1862
01:09:26,570 --> 01:09:22,880
giving a talk at some various other

1863
01:09:30,169 --> 01:09:26,580
projects possibly a documentary that's

1864
01:09:32,329 --> 01:09:30,179
been in the works for four years with

1865
01:09:33,309 --> 01:09:32,339
five different production companies

1866
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:33,319
because

1867
01:09:40,970 --> 01:09:38,100
covet and then unforeseen deaths and God

1868
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:40,980
only knows what else but yeah in the

1869
01:09:45,650 --> 01:09:42,480
same way that last book might lend

1870
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:45,660
itself well to a feature film the idea

1871
01:09:50,749 --> 01:09:47,759
itself I think

1872
01:09:53,090 --> 01:09:50,759
could reach more people as a documentary

1873
01:09:55,250 --> 01:09:53,100
or some sort of mini-series

1874
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:55,260
a lot of people have seen that too it's

1875
01:10:01,250 --> 01:09:58,320
just been a number of issues and getting

1876
01:10:03,290 --> 01:10:01,260
that out but working with somebody now

1877
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:03,300
who seems to be really passionate about

1878
01:10:08,750 --> 01:10:06,120
it and we seem to have a lot of Mutual

1879
01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:08,760
goals with regard to the creative

1880
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:10,860
aspects and the storytelling and the

1881
01:10:14,150 --> 01:10:12,239
science you know the big problem was

1882
01:10:16,189 --> 01:10:14,160
that I wanted to adhere to the science

1883
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:16,199
behind this and

1884
01:10:18,890 --> 01:10:18,000
as you're well aware and your listeners

1885
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:18,900
are

1886
01:10:23,450 --> 01:10:21,120
um entertainment dominates everything

1887
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:23,460
and people are so afraid to break into

1888
01:10:27,229 --> 01:10:25,440
doing something different even an idea

1889
01:10:29,630 --> 01:10:27,239
that makes a lot of sense if it doesn't

1890
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:29,640
conform to what they know sells already

1891
01:10:33,950 --> 01:10:31,440
then it's hard to really make that

1892
01:10:35,390 --> 01:10:33,960
switch but things are changing they're

1893
01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:35,400
changing fast

1894
01:10:40,010 --> 01:10:37,739
so I'm excited to see where that goes

1895
01:10:42,530 --> 01:10:40,020
they sure are changing fast they sure

1896
01:10:44,450 --> 01:10:42,540
are well Mike it was so wonderful to

1897
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:44,460
have you on the show today thank you so

1898
01:10:49,550 --> 01:10:47,040
much for making the time I'm such a fan

1899
01:10:51,770 --> 01:10:49,560
of your work and so excited about your

1900
01:10:53,689 --> 01:10:51,780
new book I'll be sure to include all the

1901
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,699
links for all of your books in the

1902
01:10:57,709 --> 01:10:55,679
episode description so that people can

1903
01:10:59,149 --> 01:10:57,719
check those out but yeah thank you so

1904
01:11:01,310 --> 01:10:59,159
much for coming on the podcast today

1905
01:11:03,169 --> 01:11:01,320
thank you Kelly it was great talking to

1906
01:11:07,550 --> 01:11:03,179
you I really enjoy your show and go